Who are your favorite Redwall villains?
Mine's Slagar the Cruel from Mattimeo (also my favorite Redwall novel). Between the fact that I haven't read the entire series and my dusty memories, my choice may be inaccurate, but he's the only villain that has really stuck out to me.
One reason I like Mattimeo so much is the adventure. The journey to Malkariss has always intrigued me, the quest is honestly difficult for the "good guys", and the whole novel is just well set up. But it also helps that I was interested in the antagonist (personally, nether Mattimeo nor General Ironbeak appealed to me - they both seemed a bit too much like the stereotypes I'd seen before. Just my opinion :P).
I could very well be mistaken, but Slagar is one of the only Redwall villains I recall ever having a backstory. Well, technically everyone has a backstory - whether stated or not. But with most villains (again, could be remembering wrong), the story is left out. All we see is some evil fellow bent on conquering Redwall/Salmandastron/the ocean/some random island.
But Slagar got more development, I think, and I really like that. I won't forget the shock that ran through with me when I first found out he was actually Chickenhound.
So, yeah. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on villain's backstories and motivations, but most of them just seemed evil and not much else to me.
What's your opinion?
I have always liked Flinky. From the way he acts to the fact that he and his gang actually escaped being punished for everything they did. I'm not sure why Brian Jacques allowed them to get away with murder when every other vermin didn't, but I actually liked it.
And Gulo the Savage was another favorite of mine. He's probably one of the worst villains in the books (which is most likely why he's a favorite :P ).
My favorite is the original: Cluny the Scourge!
He was intelligent, precise and patient - unlike many of the clumsy leaders who counted completely on their numbers. He was a master tactician who incorporated brilliant strategies into his attacks, and was foiled by pure luck on several occasions. He successfully conquered Redwall, and only some of the greatest heroic characters were able to stop him in the end. (Matthias, Basil and Constance. No other villain had to go up against such odds!)
He was also a great fighter, and Matthias himself did not attempt to fight him hand to hand. Instead he dropped a bell on him.
So yeah, I'm a fan of Cluny! (and secretly cheered for him most of the time - Hehe!)
Vilu Daskar is my favorite, with Cluny at a close second for the reasons stated above. I also like Gabool, but ahem--Vilu. I liked him because he seemed very refined and almost fancy, and yet he would do just as much of the dirty work as his crew.
And I also found him funny/felt bad for him for some reason. Weird.
As for Gabool, it's a long story.
It's hard to come up with a favorite, because I'll be thinking about what one did, then realize oh yeah there was another that I really liked. I think if I had to pick a favorite group of villain leaders it would be the Marlfoxes. But that's with them all together, it was cool seeing how that relationship worked. But they don't count...
So I'd have to say, my favorite villain (at the moment) would be Graypatch from Mariel of Redwall, with Cluny being a close second. Graypatch is kind of what saves the book. He's got an interesting backstory with Gabool, one that would have been interesting to see more of. His motivations make sense, and he seems like one of the more hardy villains. Even when he's stuck between Gabool and some crazy OP hares, he does pretty well with himself, and even goes down good. Though his death could have been better.
Heh, I was secretly rooting for Greypatch the whole book.
Graypatch was good, from what I remember. Problem is, it's been so long since I've read all the books (I'm currently rereading them, on Martin the Warrior right now), that I can't fully remember all the villains.
Cluny was a good villain, probably one of the best Brian ever made, and it helps that he was the original. Asmodeus was also a good additional villain, not the main antagonist, but certainly instilling a certain fear into even the reader.
UNGATT! TRUNN TRUNN TRUNN!
Why? Because he was successful, and probably the most dangerous villain in the series, next to Gulo. But Trunn had a larger army, and to date, he's the only one to ever take over Salamandastron, the most fortified place in the entire Series.
Yes, well, he was also fighting against a weak opponent. 150 senile old hares and an ancient badger is hardly a challenge to a middle aged wildcat and thousands of vermin. Should he have faced up against Cregga Rose Eyes perhaps it would've been a battle of far more epic proportions.
Well, he was only really defeated by Brocktree through treachery. Even the badger lord didn't want to engage him in open combat until the very end, when they went 1-on-1.
I never said anything about that, I said that Ungatt only conquered Salamandastron by attacking at the right time.
I know. I was just saying that Trunn was still very powerful, even though he took over the mountain like that.
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
Quote from: Skarzs on June 15, 2016, 03:59:17 AM
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
That was a wuss fight. Now, LP vs the Rapscallions was truly Titan. Also, Cregga totally REKT Damug, so in general the whole fight was awesome.
Quote from: Sagetip on June 15, 2016, 04:03:11 AM
Quote from: Skarzs on June 15, 2016, 03:59:17 AM
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
That was a wuss fight. Now, LP vs the Rapscallions was truly Titan. Also, Cregga totally REKT Damug, so in general the whole fight was awesome.
How about Lord Brocktree vs. Urgan Nagru? That was intense!
....
Think about what you just said.
I'm done trying
Quote from: Ashleg on June 15, 2016, 04:06:58 AM
Quote from: Sagetip on June 15, 2016, 04:03:11 AM
Quote from: Skarzs on June 15, 2016, 03:59:17 AM
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
That was a wuss fight. Now, LP vs the Rapscallions was truly Titan. Also, Cregga totally REKT Damug, so in general the whole fight was awesome.
How about Lord Brocktree vs. Urgan Nagru? That was intense!
I never knew Brocktree was immortal and alive during The Bellmaker! I think you meant "Ungatt Trunn," there, buddy. ;)
I did mean Ungatt Trunn.
And then while I was posting that it switched to another thread without my knowing (I'm on an IPod) and I posted the reply there, and so by the time I deleted it and said what I did here in response to my mistake, I was just done.
I've been staying up too late.
I never really liked any villains, but I favored some over others. I always felt sorry for Chickenhound/Slagar - he seemed like a character that happened to be in the wrong places at the wrong times.
Quote from: Kitsune on June 15, 2016, 04:48:34 PM
I never really liked any villains, but I favored some over others. I always felt sorry for Chickenhound/Slagar - he seemed like a character that happened to be in the wrong places at the wrong times.
Not even Plugg?
I didn't exactly consider him a villain. He was a grey character in my opinion.
"Grey" and "villain" are not mutually exclusive terms. Plugg Firetail was both.
Emporer Ublaz Made Eyes, hands down!
Pearls of Lutra
This guy was awesome! and had it not been for Martin II being immune to his hypnotizing glare, I think Ublaz would've survived (I mean, there was also Rasconza to worry about). But that's not why he's my favorite.
Ublaz was a villain who started at the bottom, worked his way up to be a successful corsair captain and skilled swordsbeast. He eventually amassed a following and decided to found his own blinkin' empire!. He chopped all the trees off Sampetra and rationed them out. Why? Because he's a bad guy and it gave him a monopoly on what ships needed most to prevent rotting away: wood!
While his fleets of corsairs did his work for him, Ublaz made himself a palace, hypnotized an entire population into serving him, and amassed a staggering fortune. Just to show off, he hypnotized a coral snake. Because why not?!
Put Ublaz up against any of the other Redwall villains from the books and who would win? Probably Ublaz. Gulo the Savage? Big, scary, but dumb as rocks. BANG! hypnotized and now Ublaz has a wolverine fighting for him. What's that? Cluny can't be hypnotized for some unknown reason? That's okay, Ublaz has a reputation as a skilled swordsbeast and could stand his ground in a fight. That is, assuming Cluny can take down Gulo and the other hypnotized horde, first >:D
Quote from: Ashleg on June 15, 2016, 04:06:58 AM
Quote from: Sagetip on June 15, 2016, 04:03:11 AM
Quote from: Skarzs on June 15, 2016, 03:59:17 AM
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
That was a wuss fight. Now, LP vs the Rapscallions was truly Titan. Also, Cregga totally REKT Damug, so in general the whole fight was awesome.
How about Lord Brocktree vs. Urgan Nagru? That was intense!
I'm gonna draw this now because we all secretly want to see it.
@Leo: I wouldn't say he's that strong. He might be able to hold his own in a 1 on 1 fight with Cluny (if they ever actually fought without backup...) but he certainly wouldn't win a fight against a larger and, ultimately, more skilled opponent. Cluny didn't become warlord for nothing.
And while he may have a large army, he only has about 60 monitors (quickly defeated by the relatively small Redwall force in Pearls) and the rest are trident rats. While skilled, they don't have any particular skills that would win them a fight with a large, varied army like Cluny's. I will admit, though, he's a powerful villain.
Quote from: Capt. Leonardo V Williams on August 13, 2016, 09:16:58 PM
Emporer Ublaz Made Eyes, hands down!
Pearls of Lutra
This guy was awesome! and had it not been for Martin II being immune to his hypnotizing glare, I think Ublaz would've survived (I mean, there was also Rasconza to worry about). But that's not why he's my favorite.
Ublaz was a villain who started at the bottom, worked his way up to be a successful corsair captain and skilled swordsbeast. He eventually amassed a following and decided to found his own blinkin' empire!. He chopped all the trees off Sampetra and rationed them out. Why? Because he's a bad guy and it gave him a monopoly on what ships needed most to prevent rotting away: wood!
While his fleets of corsairs did his work for him, Ublaz made himself a palace, hypnotized an entire population into serving him, and amassed a staggering fortune. Just to show off, he hypnotized a coral snake. Because why not?!
Put Ublaz up against any of the other Redwall villains from the books and who would win? Probably Ublaz. Gulo the Savage? Big, scary, but dumb as rocks. BANG! hypnotized and now Ublaz has a wolverine fighting for him. What's that? Cluny can't be hypnotized for some unknown reason? That's okay, Ublaz has a reputation as a skilled swordsbeast and could stand his ground in a fight. That is, assuming Cluny can take down Gulo and the other hypnotized horde, first >:D
I actually never considered that. Though I don't think Cluny would be immune to Ublaz's hypnosis, he proved himself to be weak-willed when it came down to it. Slagar and Ungatt Trunn on the other hand, well...
Could someone write a fanfic about Ublaz conquering the entire world please? Because I'm pretty sure Cap'n Leo is on to something here.
Quote from: Ashleg on August 13, 2016, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: Ashleg on June 15, 2016, 04:06:58 AM
Quote from: Sagetip on June 15, 2016, 04:03:11 AM
Quote from: Skarzs on June 15, 2016, 03:59:17 AM
That's something I feel the series really missed: battles of titans. Brian seemed to like the idea of the little guy triumphing, and it was an ongoing theme throughout his books. He even said it himself in one of those mini videos of him. I suppose it didn't hurt the stories too much, but I would still have liked to have seen some really ferocious fights between some seriously top-notch characters.
The best satisfaction to that urge I got when Urgan Nagru fought Finnbarr Galedeep.
That was a wuss fight. Now, LP vs the Rapscallions was truly Titan. Also, Cregga totally REKT Damug, so in general the whole fight was awesome.
How about Lord Brocktree vs. Urgan Nagru? That was intense!
I'm gonna draw this now because we all secretly want to see it.
I definitely do.
That fanfic idea doesn't sound half bad. I might do a one shot type short story.
Didn't it mention in the book that Ublaz got kind of (physically) weak from living such a soft life..?
Yup. He had trouble running away from Rasconza (which almost cost him his life)
Quote from: Sagetip on August 13, 2016, 09:25:45 PM
@Leo: I wouldn't say he's that strong. He might be able to hold his own in a 1 on 1 fight with Cluny (if they ever actually fought without backup...) but he certainly wouldn't win a fight against a larger and, ultimately, more skilled opponent. Cluny didn't become warlord for nothing.
And while he may have a large army, he only has about 60 monitors (quickly defeated by the relatively small Redwall force in Pearls) and the rest are trident rats. While skilled, they don't have any particular skills that would win them a fight with a large, varied army like Cluny's. I will admit, though, he's a powerful villain.
Good point, good point..
This talk has me thinking, though. You know what could be really fun (and extremely chaotic)? An RP in which everyone picks a main villain from each book, arms themselves with 100 beasts and goes at it on a battlefield!
No one would want to lose, though. :P It might be more interesting to have the main villains all in a battlefield by themselves. A bit like Hunger Games.
I don't think that would be possible for us to do, simply because of the subjectivity, we would have to incorporate leadership, as that would be a talent that a warlord would need to conquer. But we, as humans cannot perfectly imitate these villains and therefore all of this would be moot.
I'd give it a shot. ;) :P
I'm just saying I think it would be more interesting as them all fighting each other instead of with armies.
Quote from: Skarzs on August 15, 2016, 06:12:36 AM
I'm just saying I think it would be more interesting as them all fighting each other instead of with armies.
And I agree with Skarzs.
Quote from: Jet the binturong on August 13, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: Capt. Leonardo V Williams on August 13, 2016, 09:16:58 PM
Emporer Ublaz Made Eyes, hands down!
Pearls of Lutra
This guy was awesome! and had it not been for Martin II being immune to his hypnotizing glare, I think Ublaz would've survived (I mean, there was also Rasconza to worry about). But that's not why he's my favorite.
Ublaz was a villain who started at the bottom, worked his way up to be a successful corsair captain and skilled swordsbeast. He eventually amassed a following and decided to found his own blinkin' empire!. He chopped all the trees off Sampetra and rationed them out. Why? Because he's a bad guy and it gave him a monopoly on what ships needed most to prevent rotting away: wood!
While his fleets of corsairs did his work for him, Ublaz made himself a palace, hypnotized an entire population into serving him, and amassed a staggering fortune. Just to show off, he hypnotized a coral snake. Because why not?!
Put Ublaz up against any of the other Redwall villains from the books and who would win? Probably Ublaz. Gulo the Savage? Big, scary, but dumb as rocks. BANG! hypnotized and now Ublaz has a wolverine fighting for him. What's that? Cluny can't be hypnotized for some unknown reason? That's okay, Ublaz has a reputation as a skilled swordsbeast and could stand his ground in a fight. That is, assuming Cluny can take down Gulo and the other hypnotized horde, first >:D
I actually never considered that. Though I don't think Cluny would be immune to Ublaz's hypnosis, he proved himself to be weak-willed when it came down to it. Slagar and Ungatt Trunn on the other hand, well...
Any reasons why you think Cluny was weak willed?
Simple, after Martin cheated by giving him all those nightmares, when Matthias showed up, Cluny ran away, which was completely irrational and showed that rather than face his fears, Cluny would run from them.
Well, I don't think that's an entirely fair evaluation of Cluny. I think most people would be horrified if they saw something literally from their nightmares come out to confront them. What I find more telling than his initial reaction is that he didn't stay shocked for very long. Sure, he played some defense at the beginning of their fight, but as soon as he grabbed something besides his tail that was serviceable as a weapon, he fought tooth and claw and never looked back. That's not the sign of a milquetoast, unlike Princess Pinkeyes, who tripped and fell on her own sword while she was running away from her ex-slave, or Vilaya who tripped and fell on her poisoned dagger while she was running away from her ex-slave's BFF, or Slagar, who tripped and fell into a well while he was running away from Matthias (incidentally, I think I see something of a trend here ;))
Fair enough.
I definitely wouldn't say Slagar was weak-willed. His objective was never to kill Matthias, and he knew he couldn't beat him so he made a sensible retreat. He was ruthlessly intelligent and had the drive to get what he wanted, plus some revenge while he was at it.
I don't think anyone could begin to make an argument that Slagar was weak willed. ;D He "Willed" himself to survive an adder bite. Only one other creature did that in the series and that was Sunflash the Mace! And they both needed strong medicine to survive, but keep in mind Sunflash needed it given to him, while Slagar just made his own. ;)
If anything Slagar is one of the strongest willed creatures in the series.
Slagar is one of the best villains of the series, paws down.
I was disappointed with Malkariss, of course, with a character that built up, anything short of godhood would have been disappointing.
Coming from someone who doesn't care all that much for Slagar, I wish that Brian had done more like him (as in having a character from a previous book show up again as the villain) because the feeling that came with finding out that Slagar wasChickenhound was so cool.
I watched Mattimeo before I read it, and I thought all through the first few episodes that Chickenhound was Slagar, so that effect was a little lost on me.
Aww, that's too bad. :(
I've only seen a few episodes of the show here and there because I'm afraid it won't do the books justice. XD
My favorite villain is
Spoiler
Greypatch from Muriel of Redwall, I like how he rebeled against the leader.
Quote from: Ashleg on August 16, 2016, 06:00:28 AM
Aww, that's too bad. :(
I've only seen a few episodes of the show here and there because I'm afraid it won't do the books justice. XD
I actually think
Mattimeo and MtW do their books justice. Not so much with
Redwall though.
Quote from: Jet the binturong on August 16, 2016, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: Ashleg on August 16, 2016, 06:00:28 AM
Aww, that's too bad. :(
I've only seen a few episodes of the show here and there because I'm afraid it won't do the books justice. XD
I actually think Mattimeo and MtW do their books justice. Not so much with Redwall though.
Agreed, though I liked Martin The Warrior a lot better. ;)
Asmodeus will always be my favorite villain, simply because he is the closest thing to a demon that redwall got.
What about those snakes that were all tied together like a dragon?
They were cool, but Asmodeus was the original.
Also, he was the ultimate trial for Matthias before fighting Cluny, and his buildup was well deserved.
Reading Redwall as the first book and hearing the shrews and sparrows regard him so fearfully, then the murders on the riverbank, then Matthias stumbling onto him as he was sleeping and finally the epic chase and confrontation in which Matthias barely survived solidified him as a memorable and epic villain.
Yeah, he was better written.
To be honest though I like all the snakes. :P
Cluny.
There was this one really awesome villain named Ungatt Trunn...
Shadow!
Shadow is pretty dark grey for a villain
Quote from: Inquisitor on February 10, 2017, 03:11:10 AM
Shadow is pretty dark grey for a villain
I know, but I think he qualifies (even if only a little).
Quote from: Inquisitor on December 20, 2016, 03:00:13 AM
They were cool, but Asmodeus was the original.
Also, he was the ultimate trial for Matthias before fighting Cluny, and his buildup was well deserved.
Reading Redwall as the first book and hearing the shrews and sparrows regard him so fearfully, then the murders on the riverbank, then Matthias stumbling onto him as he was sleeping and finally the epic chase and confrontation in which Matthias barely survived solidified him as a memorable and epic villain.
That's true. Asmodeus is as close as you'll get to a dragon in the Redwall universe! Slay the dragon to get the magic sword that'll defeat the villain!
He reminds me of Smaug.
Hello!
I've read Redwall, Mossflower, Mariel and Mattimeo. Best villain was Cluny the Scrooge for me! I hope he turns op in a prequel! (together with me, Redtooth of course) :).
Cluny the Scrooge. I agree- I especially liked when he said "Bah humbug."
Cluny was definitely a very good villain. Some of the others are just vermin trying to be him. ;D
The villain in my opinion that is the best at camouflage, has to be Mokkan in 'Marlflox'
Is that the only reason?
His deviousness, artfulness and slyness.
clunycluuuuuuny
and then Asmodeus
heh
HAH.
XD
Cluny is my favorite for many reasons. I will not go into all of them. But I also love Slagar, Riggu Felis, Swartt Sixclaw, Vilu Daskar, Ruggan Bor and Ungatt Trunn. I don't say that Mokkan is the main villain of Marlfox, (even though he is) I say that the Marlfoxes in general are the main villains of Marlfox and I love them. To be honest, if I counted every major villain from taggerung they would probably be my favorites with the interesting Sawney Rath, the fun Gruven Zann, the best villain duo ever Vallug and Eefera and the epic Ruggan Bor.
You mean Lord Brocktree vs Ungatt Trunn. Yes, that was very good.
Quote from: redtooth on April 04, 2018, 08:38:05 PM
Hello!
I've read Redwall, Mossflower, Mariel and Mattimeo. Best villain was Cluny the Scrooge for me! I hope he turns op in a prequel! (together with me, Redtooth of course) :).
Ah, my loyal second in command. ;)
- Chickenhound/Slagar
- Urgan Nagru
- Tsarmina Greeneyes
- Badrang
Quote from: Masika on December 28, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
- Chickenhound/Slagar
- Urgan Nagru
- Tsarmina Greeneyes
- Badrang
Interesting choices, why The Foxwolf?
I dunno. These are just the four that have stuck with me since I (first) quit reading Redwall around...18/19 years ago, so they must be my favorites, right?
If things go wrong, probably Netflix tbh
Lol - possibly, possibly
The Doom Wytes. I find monster concepts like lights that lead you to your doom interesting- wait, what's that light over there?