What are you a die hard fan of?

[The Skarzs]

Good point.

[Lutra]

Die hard fan of......cartoon shows and animated movies.    Kind of unusual for someone who's 30.

[Dannflower Reguba]

       That spot was complete garbage, if it weren't for the fact that there was no human face in it, I could've sworn I was watching a political add. They're both computers! Their layout is different, but they both require knowledge to put together. Mud slinging, that's all that was.

As far as your second sentence goes, your wording here fails you. There are plenty of things that machines running Windows cannot do -- making toast, computing complex scientific equations at the speed of light, and running OS X software among them. Claiming that they have 'no limits' is simply hyperbole.

      You just completely undermined your entire argument. It was quite obvious what I meant, but you twisted my words just so you had one more thing to make your post longer.

      As far as Notepad, I've never checked. You know why? Because I don't need to change anything! Go figure, program has good quality, doesn't need maintenance.

      I can use both types fluently, so you just bombed yourself by saying that Mac users can use a computer longer than I've used anything and still not work on Windows. I haven't met an interface I couldn't work with, though I'd much prefer to avoid older operating systems (Windows Vista probably being the worst I've ever seen).

      I was talking strictly about present-day, but apparently Apple can't do anything wrong and Microsoft is a horrible evil ogre just because they shoved Apple's nose into the ground with smarter marketing and focus. Mac quality my aunt's dirty pinafore.

      And what's wrong with asking a question!? You make it sound like I'm being terse just in asking what your other interest was! I was also willing to just put this down, but now I've got two people trying to tell me that the computers that have performed magnificently for me for years are garbage when I've actually used both extensively. Sure, Garageband is nice, iMovie is convenient, but those are just for putting around, if you want to actually do something significant, you've got to purchase recognised software. Last I heard, Fruity Loops had a free version, so that completely negates Garageband.

      Finally, I really don't appreciate you mocking me with smiley's, that's just downright rude.

EDIT: You know what, I'm just gonna say this now, I'm not putting up with any more of this, if you wanna hate on an operating system just because you don't use it, that's your problem. Enjoy your limited range of computers.
     

[Søren]

Too bad everyone realized that Mac's are disorganized, over-priced, and overrated  .

I will grant that if you buy a computer straight from Apple that it's going to be expensive -- that's why we buy ours second-hand. The only one that I believe we ever bought when it was new was our Bondi Blue iMac -- my father wanted to get one soon so that he'd have it if Apple went out of business. (That's how 'overrated' they were back in the day. Either you loved them or you didn't know they even existed. Most of Apple's popularity, and almost all of its world-wide recognition, is because of the iPod and the Apple Music Store -- before that, they were lucky to get any kind of attention, good or bad.)

Last I heard, Apple doesn't even have a support line, much less other companies that can offer support.

If their website and advertising is anything to go by, that is simply incorrect. I can't vouch for the quality of their service (as I've said, we buy used, and anyway I've rarely had problems a search on the Internet couldn't tell me how to fix), but it is there.

The programs aren't even formatted for easy use, my Web Coding teacher had to show us how to modify TextEdit just so we could write some basic html!

You have to be more specific here as to what your problems are/were. Firstly, it would make more sense to compare TextEdit with WordPad... anyway, you're implying here that you were physically incapable of typing in code until the app was tinkered with, and I have never experienced anything like that. You might have had trouble with the file format, but anything that can be remedied by selecting a different option in the "Save" dialog's menu, I do not think can be fairly described as "requiring modification".

Notepad doesn't take any fiddling around,

Probably because it doesn't have any options to fiddle with.

and Mac's Word is a horrid nightmare.

Third-party program. If Microsoft chooses to make Word on the Macintosh worse than it is on Windows, that's their problem, and I don't see how you can give Apple blame for something another software vendor does. I use Google Sheets myself, so it's a moot point for me.

Safari? Please, give me IE before you give me Safari!

I have used both, as well as other browsers like Firefox and Google Chrome, and find Safari to be the best option for me (with the possible exception of Chrome). For what it's worth, IE is perhaps the most despised browser in the world today, and if you were to take a poll I doubt many people would share your belief.

And then Finder..... Why do they have an omnipotent program that makes finding things harder than it has to be? It's the same thing as windows explorer, but it's twice as annoying to use.

Saying that it is 'harder to find things' or 'twice as annoying to use', without statistics to back you up, is only an opinion. It may be true for you, but it isn't for me (I could say the same thing about Windows). What's likely is that you got used to Windows' way of doing things, and view anything that is different from that as inferior. (Not unlike Windows 7 users complaining about Windows 8.)

There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, as long as you recognize that it is your opinion and is not objective fact. A thorough analysis of the operating systems' interfaces (not unlike what was done back in the Xerox PARC and early Apple days) would probably reveal a lot that's wrong with both of them.

Also, I can't believe you've got the gall to bring up the blue screen of death (which I haven't seen in years and years), when apple has the rotating beach ball of death! Which happens quite frequently!

The time period that I was talking about is mid-to-late '90s, long before OS X and the latest, multi-colored incarnation of the beach ball came along, and when the BSOD was contemporary. While pre-OS X operating systems did have a spinning black-and-white beach ball, it wasn't recognized as the source of people's pain, just because there were worse things around the corner.
Almost all catastrophic errors and crashes resulted in something like this:

What was more likely to happen, when you got the odd interminable delay, (in which the beach ball may or may not spin) is that you would get sick of it, press the force-quit key combo, and get this:

Then, as many attempts to force quit would fail as succeed, so usually you would end up having to manually restart the computer anyway.

That might sound bad (and it was; OS X was a huge step up in stability), but Mac users could console themselves because Windows users were stuck with the BSOD.

PC was always superior because it was the handy-man computer almost from the start. You can do literally everything on a PC, but Mac's have limits.

I guess you never watched old spots like this. Anyway, when people think "handy-man", they think of a guy loaded down with specialty tools, spending a hour or so of manual labor to get the job done. That isn't exactly the kind of image you want to associate with your preferred computer.

As far as your second sentence goes, your wording here fails you. There are plenty of things that machines running Windows cannot do -- making toast, computing complex scientific equations at the speed of light, and running OS X software among them. Claiming that they have 'no limits' is simply hyperbole.

If what you actually mean is that Windows machines are more compatible (both with new and old) software, that's true, but most important software is released for both platforms today, and Windows grows less compatible with old software with every new release (out of self-defense as much as anything else). Mac users would say that we have 'quality, if not quantity'.

How can you even stand the cluttered layout?! Please explain this to me, everything's a giant mess (I have to use these blasted things at school all the time). I'm more familiar with computers than the average person, so user error is not the problem here as I can use one just fine. (I tried to run the Windows side of the duel boot computers in Web Coding, but the Mac computer's couldn't handle it)

This is simply back to personal opinion. I have used Macintosh computers all of my life, running system 7, Mac OS 8 & 9, and OS X. My experience is that not only are any of these not 'a giant mess', but that Windows machines (from Windows 3.1 on up) are painfully difficult to use and navigate, at least if you want to do anything outside of the "Start" menu. I suspect that if you asked a hardcore Linux user, they would have little good to say about either Macintosh operating systems or Windows. An experienced software interface designer could point out flaws in all of them.

Also, you might be more familiar with using Windows computers, but that doesn't mean that you have all of the experience anybody needs to do anything. There are people who have used Macs as long or longer than you have used computers of any kind who could say that they have trouble getting things done in Windows. Competence at one does not automatically confer similar capability over the other.

(If you're willing to respect the PC, then I'll leave Mac's alone, and this doesn't have to go any farther. I never wanted to come and bash someone else's preferences, but I'm going to defend PC's if other people are going to attack it)

My original post was a historical perspective, talking about pre-iPod Apple fandom. Macs don't even use PowerPC processors any more -- they use chips from the same manufacturer, Intel, that we used to despise in the 90s. It isn't about respecting or not respecting Windows, it's about paying homage to that time period of fandom.

I'm not even sure what the rest of your post was on though, sounds like racing?

I could say the same about the anime part of your post, that I'm "not even sure" what it's about.

The Stars are a NHL hockey team.

I agree entirely. I can also attest to the excellence of the Apple Support line.
And not only that, but when you also have iPhones, iPads and the rest of the Apple Ecosystem, there is nothing better in my opinion.

[James Gryphon]

      That spot was complete garbage, if it weren't for the fact that there was no human face in it, I could've sworn I was watching a political add. They're both computers! Their layout is different, but they both require knowledge to put together. Mud slinging, that's all that was.

Don't come in here, "bashing my preferences" as you put it with a one-sided post talking about how you believe Macs are terrible, and get nasty when I respond to you with anything less than awed obeisance. If you had expressed anything like the attitude that they're "both computers", we probably wouldn't be here right now.

You just completely undermined your entire argument. It was quite obvious what I meant, but you twisted my words just so you had one more thing to make your post longer.

No, it was quite obvious to you what it meant. I can think of at least three different ways it could have been interpreted, and simply decided to choose the most literal, least logical one to attack.

As far as Notepad, I've never checked. You know why? Because I don't need to change anything! Go figure, program has good quality, doesn't need maintenance.

A lack of any options to change is not synonymous with program quality.

My point, anyway, is that TextEdit is meant to handle many things, and writing HTML code and saving HTML files, while it can do that, was not its primary function; thus, you have to take one or two steps away from the default (which is rich-formatted text). Overall, TextEdit is best compared with WordPad, which I noticed you've never said anything about, probably because you know it isn't as easy to use for that purpose as Notepad is.

I can use both types fluently, so you just bombed yourself by saying that Mac users can use a computer longer than I've used anything and still not work on Windows. I haven't met an interface I couldn't work with, though I'd much prefer to avoid older operating systems (Windows Vista probably being the worst I've ever seen).

I said that they might have trouble using it, as might be expected from someone that has limited experience with that operating system. I never said that they couldn't ever figure it out.

You say you are 'fluent'. Well, people who are 'fluent', for an example, in multiple languages do not go on record saying that x language is horrible, inferior to their preferred language in every way, and that they only learned it so that they can speak to the poor people who don't know any better. Using a computer at school sometimes is nothing like using it at home, day in, day out, for weeks, months and years on end. I used nothing but Windows for several months, out of necessity, but you don't see me claiming that I have mastered it. Being able to accomplish some tasks with something doesn't mean that someone knows everything they need to know about it.

I was talking strictly about present-day

I wasn't. My original paragraph that talked about this subject spoke almost exclusively about events that took place over a decade ago.

but apparently Apple can't do anything wrong and Microsoft is a horrible evil ogre just because they shoved Apple's nose into the ground with smarter marketing and focus. Mac quality my aunt's dirty pinafore.

Microsoft did use shrewd business strategy, at a time when Apple was lacking in that attribute -- for instance, it was a sound business move to make sure that Windows would run on different computer manufacturers' hardware. That said, if your position is that Microsoft has succeeded because of the quality of their product, that is simply wrong.

For the most part, they have succeeded because they got in the market early, got a dominant position, and then were able to make sure that everyone else had to remain 'compatible' with their products. They put companies out of business, yes, but mainly through their monopolistic business practices, which eventually got them, a little before the turn of the century, charged with violating antitrust law. Ask Netscape, Be Inc, Bristol, Caldera, Novell, Opera, Spyglass, Stac Electronics and Sun Microsystems whether they think that Microsoft's success is mainly or even largely due to great software design.

And what's wrong with asking a question!? You make it sound like I'm being terse just in asking what your other interest was!

Perhaps I overreacted there. The source of my problem was that "not even sure", at least to me, implies a dismissive or disdainful attitude. It might sound funny, but if you had omitted the word "even", I wouldn't have had any trouble with it.

I was also willing to just put this down, but now I've got two people trying to tell me that the computers that have performed magnificently for me for years are garbage when I've actually used both extensively.

Well, if it's any consolation, I know what that's like.

Finally, I really don't appreciate you mocking me with smiley's, that's just downright rude.    

Some of my emoticons did contribute to mocking some of your points, but they were not intended to degrade you as a person. If my mission here was to be rude, I would not have spent this much time (over an hour) going back over my posts (yes, this one included) to make sure that they didn't say anything that I would regret, or that would undermine the office I hold on this forum, in the future.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with this post, but I'm too stubborn to easily back down from an argument I helped start about a subject I'm passionate about, so here it goes.

Edit: ... and I took so long pre-editing this that I didn't notice Danflor's edit until after the post was done. Oh well.

[Søren]

OKKKKKK, let's bring it down a notch, if you haven't done so. It obvious that neither of the two sides are gonna win this war. It's been raging for years now. And both sides love their respective products! That's why both of you posted in this thread! So, why don't t we change the subject to something less cutthroat more peaceful.
James, (or is it Mr. Gryphon  sense your a moderator?) why don't we talk about the Dallas Stars.
Or Danflor, we could talk about the Owls of Ga'hoole books, or Anime stuff.

[James Gryphon]

OKKKKKK, let's bring it down a notch, if you haven't done so. It obvious that neither of the two sides are gonna win this war. It's been raging for years now.

That's the truth. It's kinda like politics, I think.

James, (or is it Mr. Gryphon  sense your a moderator?)

James or Gryph are fine.

...we could talk about the Owls of Ga'hoole books

I actually heard about those, but I didn't read about them. They sound interesting enough. I had no idea there were so many of them (Wikipedia lists 16). Fifteen books in five years is an extremely fast writing and publishing output, too.

[The Skarzs]

Argument unresolvable due to literally tens of thousands of people saying yay or nay for either one.

I am a die hard fan of metalworking and knives.

[Delthion]

Lord of the Rings.

[Tam and Martin]

My life.......

[Delthion]

LOTRO.

[CaptainRocktree]

^^^^^ I have quite a few myself!!!! I love Marvel, Reading, Exploring in the woods, Camping, Mountain biking, Hiking, and more! I also love can..., anyone guess (Look at my profile pic!)

DUCK DYNASTY!!!!!! 
[/quote]
How'd you guess!, But everyone knows cause its a fact Jack! 

[The Mask]

Guardians of Ga'Hoole. Owls of Ga'hoole is the stupid movie's name.

[Cornflower MM]

Guardians of Ga'Hoole. Owls of Ga'hoole is the stupid movie's name.

Stupid?! OH MY GODS THAT MOVIE WAS TERRIBLE! The Pure Ones and St. Aggie's were COMPLETELY UNRELATED UNTIL THE PURE ONES STOLE THE AGGIE'S OWL'S CANYON! Plus, Metal Beak is Kludd - BUT DO THEY CARE ABOUT THAT?! NO! And who the heck was the hedgehog-y guy?! He wasn't in the books! Digger and Twilight weren't living in a hollow together, either! And SOREN was the one who found Mr. P., NOT Twilight, and NOT that early in the books! And Soren and Kludd have NEVER brnached together! Kludd pushed Soren out of the nest! He DIDN'T fall out with him! Ah, I could go on for days. . . .

[Lutra]

Every film based on a book has its changes.  There were a lot for Guardians of Gahoole, naturally because you only have so long in the film.  I've only seen one book to visual adaptation that was nearly unchanged, and that is Game of Thrones, but that's a tv show that's been on for some four seasons now so they have plenty of time to keep just about everything in line. Movies don't have that kind of time to work with.