For discussion related to the book
The Rogue Crew.
Plot Teaser:
Redwall Abbey has never seen a creature more evil or more hideous than Razzid Wearat. Captain of the Greenshroud, a ship with wheels that can sail through water as well as the forest, this beast is a terror of both land and sea, traveling Mossflower Country, killing nearly everything—and everyone— in his path. And his goal? To conquer Redwall Abbey. From Salamandastron to the High North Coast, the brave hares of the Long Patrol team up with the fearless sea otters of the Rogue Crew to form a pack so tough, so rough, only they can defend the abbey and defeat Razzid Wearat once and for all.
@James Gryphon: If these topics are considered unnecessary please delete.
It was ok because it was Redwall. I didn't like the hare protagonist, his fat friend or the shrew maid.
@Inquisitor and
@Gonff the Mousethief were talking about
Rogue Crew in Ash's
Eulalia!, so I thought I'd bring it here because I have something to add.
Inq said something about the otter that died. . . .
SPOILER
Were you talking about Kit, Inq? She dies at the end. That made me sad, because she was one of my favorite otters from the book. But what really started the waterworks for me was that hare. . . . I can't remember his name. He was a reformed troublemaker, name started with a D.
Man,
Rogue Crew is one that never fails to make me sad.
(Fun fact: It was also the first one I owned! I got it when it was new. I'd been reading Redwall before that, though. Wait, was it
Rogue Crew or
Sable Quean? One of the two.)
No, it was Swiffo. I just checked the wiki
Spoiler
Kit died too, the crossbow bolt speared her right on the gates.
But yeah Swiffo died.
You got sad over Kit's death and totally forgot she existed until I checked the wiki. ._.
Quote from: Inquisitor on December 21, 2016, 04:08:30 PM
No, it was Swiffo. I just checked the wiki
Oh! Right! Swiffo! I'd forgotten about him. Yeah, that was sad.
A persistent take on the Rogue Crew I've seen in various venues since its publication has been that two elements of it substantively differ from the rest of the books. Namely, that the ending is somehow different, odd, from those of the other books, and that the Rogue Crew, the good guys, are more violent and less sympathetic than the goodies tend to be. Having finally read the last book of the series a few months ago, I realized that I didn't find either of these to be true. I never asked before, not having the grounds to do so or wanting to spoil the read, but I want to now. What exactly, if any of you found one or both of those things to be true, led you to think so?
It's been a while since I read it, but I recall at the end the protogonists hunt down and massacre the surviving crew. I think they even did it by squashing them under the ship's wheels, which was treated as some horrendously cruel death earlier (I might be wrong about this). It's not necessarily unjustified, but it's a treatment usually reserved for a specific villain who's harmed the protagonist personally.
And didn't the otters eat the vermin they killed? That's also something treated as a crime against humanity (animality?) in the other books. As for the ending, I mostly remember it being the same "Bad guys bust through the gate and get rekt" thing that happens in most of the stories.
Anyways, I recall this being much, much better than the Sable Queen, which I didn't care for. The bad guys feel threatening, even if it was undercut by the inevitable Abbey punch-up, it had a cool gimmick, and the characters were fun, even if I think they tried a bit to hard to be "morally grey" at times. It's one of the more memorable ones for me.
I just got done reading The Rogue Crew this evening and no I don't believe the otters ate the vermin they killed. They just had a policy of killing every vermin they saw. I also don't remember reading that they squashed the remaining vermin under the ship's wheels though it wasn't specifically said how they killed them as they chased them down so maybe that was how they did it.
Don't they? I must be mixing it up with a different book then. I guess I shouldn't be critiquing stories I haven't read in so long, haha.
I do recall that after reading it that I felt the protagonists were darker and the book was more serious than was typical. I'll have to go back and reread it to pinpoint exactly why I felt that way.
The Rogue Crew for me was just an odd read for me overall. I knew how it wasn't a 100% complete product but still was well enough to be read, and I had heard of the darker tone it had. But for me, I felt it was all over the place. You have the hedgehog group who is split up all around Mossflower for starters. You meet a lot of their members, but it amounts to nothing. The main hedgehog hardly does any deed, the others are never heard from again, and it felt like a bit waste of a build up. Plus I wish it had gone just a tad slower. With the whole wheels on the ship thing I felt that in some parts the bad guys were always on the good guys' tails, and then out of no where they would be leagues behind. I dunno, overall it was fun to see a darker side of Redwall, but I didn't feel it amounted to much. The Rogue Crew though, they stole the show and I wish we could have seen more of them.
Oh yeah. The Rogue Crew were definitely darker protganists than what we're used to. There have been some hardcore heroes in the Redwall books before but I don't remember any that had such a zero tolerance policy on letting vermin live.
Part of it may have been it, I believe, not actually being finished by Brian. That's what it felt like, at least.
Is there any evidence whatsoever that he didn't finish it? And for that matter, that it affected the book in such specific ways?
That has been Conventional Wisdom for a long time.
It certainly feels finished since there's an Epilogue and everything.
I don't know that this book was finished by someone else. LordTBT of the Redwall Wiki discovered that there's a chance of a 23rd Redwall manuscript out there, which would likely mean that The Rogue Crew was all written by him. http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordTBT/News:Is_There_A_Redwall_23%3F_An_Old_Mystery_Deciphered
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on August 08, 2017, 03:51:39 PM
I don't know that this book was finished by someone else. LordTBT of the Redwall Wiki discovered that there's a chance of a 23rd Redwall manuscript out there, which would likely mean that The Rogue Crew was all written by him. http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordTBT/News:Is_There_A_Redwall_23%3F_An_Old_Mystery_Deciphered
I still hope that somebody can recover that, if it's real (which it probably is) and give it to the public.
Still, that does not mean he finished
The Rogue Crew. I have heard of many authors who write two books in their series at the same time, and this could especially be the case for Redwall as they have little chronological connection.
I'm just talking about that it had a different feel and style than other books, at least to me.
The wheels on the ship go round and round...
Below lay Ashleg's odd ramblings of this book.
Now that I'm actually reading this (DON'T SPOIL ANYTHING FOR ME, I'M ONLY HALFWAY DONE) I can comment on it.
First off, I like Razzid. I don't think he's done anything especially horrid in comparison to some of the other villains, which does seem to mean that he's mostly known for merely existing and having a wheely boat and tampering with some otters than anything else.
Sounds like a sort of letdown, but eh, I don't think so.
Then there's Shekra--she reminds me of Sela! A seer with CHARACTER! It's been so long since we've last seen one of those!
The Rogue Crew themselves are cool, too. I wouldn't mind if the whole book was just them vs Razzid's crew and none of that Uggo stuff.
(What kind of name is 'Uggo', anyway?)
Is there a prophecy in this book? I'm halfway done and so far nothing, save for what Uggo's (grandma?) relative said before she (spoiler) (died).
I actually prefer the absence of a riddle...
Oh, and Rake and Crumdun are cool.
Yeah. I like this one. Go out with a bang, eh, series? Good on you.
I just finished this!
No, they did not run the vermin over with the ship, they chased them in the ship and then got out and dealt with 'em.
Cool!
So, since you just read it, do you think that the Rogue Crew feel like darker goodbeasts than usual?
Quote from: Ashleg on August 08, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on August 08, 2017, 03:51:39 PM
I don't know that this book was finished by someone else. LordTBT of the Redwall Wiki discovered that there's a chance of a 23rd Redwall manuscript out there, which would likely mean that The Rogue Crew was all written by him. http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordTBT/News:Is_There_A_Redwall_23%3F_An_Old_Mystery_Deciphered
I still hope that somebody can recover that, if it's real (which it probably is) and give it to the public.
Still, that does not mean he finished The Rogue Crew. I have heard of many authors who write two books in their series at the same time, and this could especially be the case for Redwall as they have little chronological connection.
iirc, Jacques spent only a few months on a book from start to finish (something like during a particular season? the spring?). I know I read he said he never had writer's block, so that makes complete sense to me. I'd think he finished the Rogue Crew, with that in mind.
Now, if the newer book was mostly completed, I'd think there'd be a far greater chance we'd see it finished and published. I'd
guess any new book that was started was only in a very early phase. Little incentive to find someone to write it, if so. It'd be almost like just getting someone to write a whole new novel. Which is just fan fiction, basically.
Aye, definitely darker. I liked it. They felt more real than usual. I wish he had been able to write more after this.
...Never had writers' block? :o Why didn't he give me some of whatever that is?!
I quite enjoyed my re-read of this book. :D
I found the final chapter a little humdrum; I didn't find it necessary to have a few pages of what the hares and Violet were getting up to just before the 'heroes' arrived home, and would rather have had the final chapter at Redwall with the epilogue section a letter from Violet, rather than the other way around. I wanted to see what happened just after the battle from the Redwaller view, and see a bit more from Uggo to bookend the story better. ''Well done, Uggo, you're not such a greedy, useless young Wiltud after all!" or something.
As Skarsz and others suggested earlier, perhaps that part wasn't properly finished and had to be pieced together best as they could. Was a saddening thought when I finished it that there will never be any other 'canon' Redwall stories again. :( Glad that he managed to write 22 tales!
So why I liked it, aside from the final chapter, was... thanks to Brian's writing! Engaging stories came together and it just was a pleasant read, really. :)
Quote from: belle on September 21, 2016, 03:01:41 AM
It was ok because it was Redwall. I didn't like the hare protagonist, his fat friend or the shrew maid.
Um, that was The Sable Quean. This is The Rogue Crew.
I'm on chapter 25 of The Rogue Crew and I like it so far. I like it much more than The Sable Quean so far. I enjoyed The Sable Quean and it's characters and plot but I had some BIG problems with it. I do have some problems with The Rogue Crew, such as it being a little fast paced. But I am enjoying it very much so far. I like Uggo and Posy but they pale in comparison to the rogue crew and the long patrol in this book. I like Razzid and the villains in this book as well and I like how we get a lot of time with the villains unlike many other redwall books.
So, so far I like The Rogue Crew quite a bit.
i usually dont have favorites for redwall, because i like all the books, but the rogue crew is my favorite
Finished! I liked it! I think it was a bit fast paced at some points and Uggo and Posy aren't very interesting. My favorite parts of the book are the Long Patrol and Rogue Crew and the villains. I feel in a lot of the later redwall books, the villains kind of disappear at some parts and aren't in the book as nearly as much as they should be. But Razzid was in the book quite a bit! And he was awesome. I loved how he was big but also very very smart as well. Also, his crew were some of the more interesting vermin hordes in the series. The Rogue Crew were interesting. Some very enjoyable characters in this band of sea otters. I also like how we spend time with the hares of the Long Patrol and get to know them. I pretty much always love the Long Patrol in the books they're in and this particular Long Patrol was one of my favorites. I loved Rake Nightfur, Nubbs Miggory, Algernon Scutram and the rest. Noticeable members include:
Buff Redspore
Trug Bawdlsey
Big Drander
Bribbs
and all the others because they were all great.
But there were some problems for me. Razzid's death was anticlimactic, like Riggu's and honestly I wasn't a huge fan of the pointless side adventures with Uggo's story, even if some of his storyline was fun. And there was just a weird feeling with this book in some places and I don't know exactly why.
In the end I wasn't head over heels with this book, but I think it was fun and a good end to the series.
I always saw this as a bit of a return to form. I appreciated The Sable Quean somewhat but thought it was by and large formulaic. While Rogue Crew was still fairly formulaic, I thought it was quite different in tone and I thought the characters were pretty strong.