So many people dislike this book that I decided to make a thread about it.
Quote from: SoranMBane on May 07, 2015, 05:45:14 AM
Quote from: JangoCoolguy on May 06, 2015, 09:31:31 PM
Lazy writing, plain and simple.
Oh yes, I went there.
Hey, it's no secret Jacques was just going through the motions (and not very well) with "Loamhedge"
I actually agree wholeheartedly with this; Loamhedge is one of the very few Redwall books that I outright dislike, and a lot of it has to do with Martha's recovery (and also with Martin deliberately sending a bunch of creatures on a futile quest, thus getting two of them killed, just so one hare maid could walk again, but that's not what the thread's about, so I'll leave it lying for now). I think it would have been better if she had somehow manged to save the day without a magical recovery, thus proving to herself that she was still useful even with her disability. It would have sent a much better message to all the children reading who actually do have to live with that sort of thing.
I haven't read it in a very long time, so I can't give wholesome reasons for disliking it, but I didn't appreciate the deaths of Bragoon and Saro by the sudden and cliche appearance of a group of reputedly very powerful enemies. They didn't even have a real reason to kill them other than the fact that they crossed their bridge. -_- Other than that, nothing else comes to mind, so until I read it again, that's all I have.
Oh, yes. Very poor quality writing in my opinion. The plot of the whole book is circumvented by a lame literary device, the protagonists die pointlessly, and the mystery the entire premise of the book rests on (How Martha could walk again) was never solved- Bragoon and Saro just made something up before their lame (although tear-jerking) death. The book never even had a good antagonist.
I remember thinking when I read it as a pre-teen that it was innovative for its portrayal of rebellious teenagers.
Now, though, it seems pretty much forgettable, and the only stuff I sort-of remember (augmented by reading about it here and on the Wiki) is all bad. :-\
All I can say is that if you write a lot of books, some of them are bound to be weak. The greatest, most renowned authors are no better -- Jules Verne, for instance, wrote a lot more than just his four most famous novels, but most of them were apparently not especially memorable, and haven't even been translated from the original French.
We should really be surprised that Mr. Jacques had as many good books as he did, not that a few are critically reviewed as having came up short.
Oh yes, all writers have their bad days. Few exceptions. As renowned authors as C.S. Louis and Tolstoy all wrote some weak books. I'm simply commenting on the weakness of the book compared to his other works. Doubtless Brian Jacques was a great author, this just was not one of his better efforts.
I heard all the bad comments on here and decided to read it to see what it was like, but I don't think it was that bad, until the end, where it wasn't that good, but I was surprised that it wasn't as bad as I had thought from reading you guys comments, especially at the beginning.
But, it was kind of pointless when Martin sent them on some quest that had no results. The rest was OK, though, and I didn't dislike it that much.
I like Loamhedge, though I don't consider it among my favourites. My briefest thoughts on the story:Quote from: Banya on May 06, 2015, 09:35:58 PM
...Sometimes our minds hold us back as much as our bodies do. We've seen again and again the little guy (i.e. a mouse) gather the courage and skills to take a stand against evil. Loamhedge provided a whole new enemy to be conquered. It was one of the most encouraging books of the series.
Was I the only one originally hoping it was going to be some kind of ultra-prequel, that covered the actual Order of Loamhedge, and maybe the plague mentioned in Mossflower? THAT would have been interesting.
^You weren't. Based on the title alone when I first received the book, I was hoping/anticipating it would cover those same elements.
I always liked Loamhedge...I loved the mystery surrounding it...I was only disappointed by the lack of finding anything in Loamhedge.
Really to me, Loamhedge seemed to be a book were everything happened at just the right time. If you take a step back, it really seems that Martin sent them on a quest for everything to happen as it did, just so perfectly. If you look at in from that angle, that is actually pretty cool.
This was my re-introduction into Redwall after a 10 year absence and i was really disappointed. As I wrote elsewhere; the majority of characters were a bit too wholesome and one dimensional...a bit "wet" in slang.
Quote from: Stellamara on July 28, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Was I the only one originally hoping it was going to be some kind of ultra-prequel, that covered the actual Order of Loamhedge, and maybe the plague mentioned in Mossflower? THAT would have been interesting.
*lightbulb* Fanfiction!
Yeah, this book is a mess. The plot is just kind of screwed up; it involves Martin's spirit sending a group of creatures on a futile quest under false pretenses to find a cure that doesn't exist, thus resulting in two of the questers dying and allowing a siege at Redwall to progress to the point that vermin break into the abbey and nearly kill a Redwaller, all just to get one haremaid to walk again. There's also some pretty unfortunate implications behind the fact that a physically disabled character is only able to earn a happy ending by suddenly overcoming their disability through sheer force-of-will.
I would say "It is a children's book," but I am of the philosophy that giving children false pretenses is bad.
("Hey, Johnny, my mom read me this cool book and this animal can walk again, just because she thought she could! Let's see if our diabled friend Bob can too!)
Of course, that's exaggerating, but you get my point.
Quote from: IridescentFox on July 29, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
This was my re-introduction into Redwall after a 10 year absence and i was really disappointed. As I wrote elsewhere; the majority of characters were a bit too wholesome and one dimensional...a bit "wet" in slang.
This argument always sends me into a downward spiral. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS!!! Of course they're going to be more wholesome! If they aren't then why are they the good guys? Rant over!
On a more pleasant note, welcome! Sorry about me flying off the handle, but...*See first sentence.* Anyway, I am usually much more jovial! ;D ;D
Quote from: Delthion on July 30, 2015, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: IridescentFox on July 29, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
This was my re-introduction into Redwall after a 10 year absence and i was really disappointed. As I wrote elsewhere; the majority of characters were a bit too wholesome and one dimensional...a bit "wet" in slang.
This argument always sends me into a downward spiral. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS!!! Of course they're going to be more wholesome! If they aren't then why are they the good guys?
It's entirely possible to make good guys without making them boring and perfect. (I'm not implying that all the Redwall good guys are boring by any means) Good guys should be good, of course, but they don't have to be flawless champions of goodness and morality. Everyone, even the best of us, has flaws. ...And that concludes my rant.
Quote from: Izeroth on July 30, 2015, 04:31:05 AM
Quote from: Delthion on July 30, 2015, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: IridescentFox on July 29, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
This was my re-introduction into Redwall after a 10 year absence and i was really disappointed. As I wrote elsewhere; the majority of characters were a bit too wholesome and one dimensional...a bit "wet" in slang.
This argument always sends me into a downward spiral. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS!!! Of course they're going to be more wholesome! If they aren't then why are they the good guys?
It's entirely possible to make good guys without making them boring and perfect. (I'm not implying that all the Redwall good guys are boring by any means) Good guys should be good, of course, but they don't have to be flawless champions of goodness and morality. Everyone, even the best of us, has flaws. ...And that concludes my rant.
Thanks Izeroth, well put. In contrast, I am now reading Rakkety Tam. Tam and Doogy are good guys with wit, banter, sass etc. Repeating myself from another post here but if people desired wholesome characters then The Simpsons would have been The Flanders and the WWE would be rebranded as World Hugging and Smiling Entertainment.
That's why I don't like The Simpson's or WWE...and never heard of The Flanders. ;D ;D
Sorry, Ned Flanders and his family are The Simpson's next door neighbours.
I've never seen any of the above, and don't want to...
I have to admit...Loamhedge is one of my favorite Redwall books :)
What sets Loamhedge apart for you, Firehawke?
I personally liked how Bragoon and Saro were older heros, with a friendship and courage that could be role modeled by the the younger protagonists.
One of the aspects that I really like is the fact that one of the characters is handicapped and is shown to be a strong, take charge character. I actually included that aspect in one section of my Master's thesis (along with Simeon). And I also liked seeing how they had to adapt to information that Redwallers discovered in Mattimeo
Quote from: Hickory on July 29, 2015, 06:16:24 PM
I would say "It is a children's book," but I am of the philosophy that giving children false pretenses is bad.
("Hey, Johnny, my mom read me this cool book and this animal can walk again, just because she thought she could! Let's see if our diabled friend Bob can too!)
Of course, that's exaggerating, but you get my point.
That is not what Jacques wanted to say, and also I don't think anyone with a right mind after reading a fantasy book, believe that they could actually walk without prosthetics or a crutch. Just saying. Martha isn't even actually disabled, it says in the book that there seemed to be no damage, or anything like that. She was in shock for a while, and then when the shock didn't pass away and she couldn't walk she believed herself to be crippled when she wasn't. That is how I always imagined it. I think Brian wanted to go for, "never give up" or, "if you believe then you can accomplish things" and that sort of stuff.
Loamhedge is my favourite book!