So, I wrote an essay. This is where essays go, yes?
Generally, the vermin of the Redwall series aren't very successful. Yes, they may score a couple victories or succeed in killing some hero, but they always lose the battle in the end (and usually lose their lives too.)
This is intended as a guide of sorts. I hope it may give you ideas for fanfics, or just generally make you more interested in vermin tactics. So, without further ado....
Fear
Fear is a powerful weapon. While some vermin (mainly uncivilized tribes) do use fear as a weapon, they don't use it to its full effect. Examples of fear tactics vermin could use are: smearing the blood of slain enemies on their clothing, catapulting the heads of enemies over the walls of the fortress they're attacking, and just generally burning stuff. In that order, if possible.
Pretend to fail
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any vermin warlord has ever used this tactic. A good example is when the Greeks did this in the Trojan war. There are a few strategies I have for this:
Fake weakness: Pretend that your forces are weak and demoralized, but do not stop your siege. With any luck, the goodbeasts will get lazy, and you'll be able to launch a devastating attack.
Feign defeat: Actually break up your camp and retreat far enough from the enemy fortress so that they cannot see you. Keep out of sight for two days, and then launch a surprise attack on your enemy.
Make a fake peace agreement: Arrange for a treaty with the goodbeasts. Pretend to be weak and tired, and act as if you do not want to have a treaty, but you are left with no choice. If the diplomats meet with you at your camp, take them hostage and threaten to kill them. If the diplomats force you to discuss terms inside their fortress, send assassins (under the guise of being diplomats). Have the assassins take out the goodbeasts' leadership.
Shows of strength
These are meant not to scare your enemies, but to dishearten and intimidate them. If done well, shows of strength can boost morale among your troops, and lower morale among the enemy.
Pretend to use magic: Ungatt Trunn did this, and though his army fell apart, faking magic can be a good strategy. Unless you're sieging Salamandastron, your enemies won't have a badger lord available to dispel their fears. Many beasts are naturally superstitious, and faking magic tricks uses this superstition to your advantage. Some good magic tricks to fake include turning invisible (Against a dark backdrop, in the middle of the night, cover yourself with a black cloak.), raising the dead (Bury one of your horde beasts under a very thin layer of dirt, making sure to have little holes around the nostrils so that he can breathe. Later on, have him rise out of his "grave") and summoning weather (If it starts to rain or thunder, say that the storm came because you summoned it. At least some beast will probably believe you.)
Show off your army: Have your troops parade around the walls of whatever fortress you are attacking. Besides impressing the enemy, this will also raise morale among your own soldiers. This strategy is not recommended for warlords with small or under-supplied hordes. (Showing off a small horde is more likely to amuse your enemy than impress them.)
Nice tips, but why are you on the side of the vermin? Also that diplomacy thing, it was used in a way by vikings who pretended that their leader was dead and in the church, the box in which the "dead" leader was in opened and the leader tossed weapons to all of his men and they slaughtered everyone in the city and lived happily ever after. Fin.
EDIT: I support vermin too.
I'm on the side of the vermin because the vermin always lose. That's a really cool fact about the Vikings by the way.... I should include that in something.
I'll say the full story later. It involves vikings, bishops, and holy ointment that led to the downfall of a city.
I thought your examination of the book's vermin tactics a valid one. Well done too. You forgot the time they tried tunneling into the Abbey, but were so close to the surface everyone inside heard them.
Some of your suggested tactics, such as the intimidation factor, come straight from the works of Sun Tzu. If you intend having battles, keep a copy of his book, "The Art of War," on your desk as a reference guide.
For anyone wanting to do a fan fiction, check your library for books on siege tactics. They offer a lot of fascinating facts on both defense and offense. Just one example I used in mine was the stringing of wire above a castle's outer wall.
Of course we must remember that Brian Jaques never did give vermin too many smarts, though he does give vermin leaders charisma.
True, true. There never was a trebuchet... :'(
The closest thing to an unstoppable siege weapon they got was the ship from the Rogue Crew.
They did use a giant crossbow, which is also known as a ballista. As to the weapon mentioned, a trebuchet, it would be in the family of siege weapons commonly referred to as catapults.
Now that I read this, why didn't Redwall or Salamandastron have any ballistae or catapults? ??? ??? ??? ???
Redwall doesn't have any ballistae or catapults because it's a place of peace! Putting catapults or ballistae up would send the wrong message. As for Salamandastron, maybe there weren't any good spots to install them?
Think I know why no war machines in Redwall:
1 -- Time is measured in seasons (3 months) If you read Sun Tzu, you'll know minimum time for a siege is six months. Too long in the life of a vermin or woodlander.
2 -- With such short lifespans, the slug-it-out theory held.
3 -- Building siege machines would require intelligence. Something vermin lacked, thus no reason for woodlanders to have counters.
One comment regarding the Viking and the coffin. That's an adaptation of Homer's Trojan Horse.
1. You have a good point. Due to the presence of the GUOSIM and the otter holts, sieges never last very long.
2. Isn't the average lifespan of an animal in the Redwall series the same as a human being?
3. Not all vermin lacked intelligence. Even if the grunts were dumb, the horde leaders could have made them do the actual labour. The horde leaders had to be smart, to get to their position.
'Tis not the same as a human being. Badgers outlive most beasts by a lot, which implies that most beasts don't live all that long.
Excluding badgers and other big 'uns, other beasts have normal lifespans, don't they?
I don't think most beasts live as long as humans. Not sure about that, though.
Quote from: Lord_Ashenwyte on January 11, 2015, 05:31:28 AM
2. Isn't the average lifespan of an animal in the Redwall series the same as a human being?
It was one of the things I disliked about the books. Some went from Nappies, (diapers) to full maturity in a season while others took two or more. It made age comparisons difficult and the time of a dibbun unknown.
I think the reason they didn't have siege weapons was because of a lack of numbers. You have to remember the average Human army of that era was around ten thousand give or take a lot. The average warlord army from Redwall universe was maybe five hundred. That's a big difference, with such a tiny number constructing and operating such equipment would be frustrating to your over-all efforts. I remember it took Cluny nearly a week to construct a siege tower...
Plus, you have construction statistics, of those five hundred creatures how many do you think have any idea how to make a catapult?
Quote from: Lord_Ashenwyte on January 08, 2015, 07:08:50 AM
Nice tips, but why are you on the side of the vermin. Also that diplomacy thing, it was used in a way by vikings who pretended that their leader was dead and in the church, the box in which the "dead" leader was in opened and the leader tossed weapons to all of his men and they slaughtered everyone in the city and lived happily ever after. Fin.
This happened in Marlfox, with the liberation of baby Dwopple.
Quote from: LT Sandpaw on February 02, 2015, 12:24:14 AM
I think the reason they didn't have siege weapons was because of a lack of numbers. You have to remember the average Human army of that era was around ten thousand give or take a lot. The average warlord army from Redwall universe was maybe five hundred. That's a big difference, with such a tiny number constructing and operating such equipment would be frustrating to your over-all efforts. I remember it took Cluny nearly a week to construct a siege tower...
Plus, you have construction statistics, of those five hundred creatures how many do you think have any idea how to make a catapult?
A warlord could hire mercenaries or locals to do the work for him. If not, he himself could always supervise the work.
Mind you, dumb vermin didn't become warlords, the smart ones, like Cluny, did.
Quote from: Izeroth on January 10, 2015, 10:08:28 PM
Redwall doesn't have any ballistae or catapults because it's a place of peace! Putting catapults or ballistae up would send the wrong message. As for Salamandastron, maybe there weren't any good spots to install them?
In Outcast, the author said tht catapaults were used against Swartt.
did that "catapult their heads" idea come from LoTR by any chance
few tips of my own...
Tactic on the field: Get behind the enemy, a very demoralizing tactic for the enemy
Trojan horse bro, trojan horse
SIEGE WEAPONS, get some (battering rams and siege artillery)
Cavalry, is it too much to ask for
Be creative (starting to sound like an art teacher now, aren't I)
As for vermin leaders: don't ever underestimate (it will kill you)
Words of advice: $1.00
And where, do you suppose, would a vermin warlord get some cavalry?
I asked if it was too much, but grass snake cavalry is completely possible, not adders though, definitely not adders
I don't know. I doubt a snake would ever allow a vermin to ride it. Perhaps, though...
not a normal vermin no, but a grass snake would probably allow Cluny or a lizard to ride it
Yes, I know this is an old topic.
For those of you considering writing battles, keep a copy of Sun Tzu's "Art of War" handy. Good tactics adhere to his principles.
Quote from: CpnRake335 on February 21, 2015, 07:22:42 PM
I asked if it was too much, but grass snake cavalry is completely possible, not adders though, definitely not adders
Snakes lack the speed to deliver a devastating charge. They could cause fear, but would act like elephants in that matter.
The beaver and Constance made a ballista in book one.
Wow. Great idea! I will definitely use this.
Quote from: Jack the Quick on June 14, 2019, 12:28:37 AM
Wow. Great idea! I will definitely use this.
Dare I ask how you are going to use this?
In my fanfics