Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: Mariel on June 15, 2013, 12:24:07 AM

Title: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Mariel on June 15, 2013, 12:24:07 AM
I have several questions:

1. Who made all the paintings in the room, foretelling all that would happen?

2. What is in the incense the badgers burn?It must be pretty strong.

3. How do the ancient badger warriors bodies not stink and decay? Are they mummified ?

4. Do the paintings show what happened to the ancient badger warriors?

Hmm, think thats some of my biggest unanswered questions.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Lutra on June 15, 2013, 01:28:33 AM
Letsee here....

1.) Something wants to say the previous Badger Lord, but how would they know?  Maybe Salamandastron has a hare mystic or seer.

2.) Incense is pretty strong anyway.  Go into a small room with that stuff and I bet it can leave you wanting air.

3.) That would be my guess.

4.) Not sure; its never really explained what is in the room, except that its not for hares to see.  Its actually more mysterious because we never do find out.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Shadowed One on June 15, 2013, 04:04:20 PM
1. In OoR Sunflash makes some.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 21, 2013, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
By a seer-like badger, maybe?
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 21, 2013, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
By a seer-like badger, maybe?
Probably someone like that!
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 21, 2013, 11:20:13 PM
Ah zink it vaz ze badgerz o' old vho made ze paintin'z.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Redwaller on July 03, 2013, 12:53:41 AM
Ceteruler the Just must have been the one to make the first ones. Then as Badger Lord/Lady follows Badger Lord/Lady, carvings are added by the badgers who had visions.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 03, 2013, 04:50:39 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 21, 2013, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
By a seer-like badger, maybe?
Probably someone like that!
Yes, that is most likely the answer.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Rusvul on July 11, 2013, 11:08:35 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
Are you sure of that? They're mystical carvings that predict the future, perhaps they were always there, even before creatures walked the earth.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 12, 2013, 01:02:06 AM
Didn't Lord Brocktree, the first book in chronological order, have them?
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Redwaller on July 12, 2013, 01:54:06 AM
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 12, 2013, 01:02:06 AM
Didn't Lord Brocktree, the first book in chronological order, have them?
Ceteruler the Just was there before that.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 12, 2013, 02:46:34 AM
And Spearlady Gorse and the others, too.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: The Shade on July 12, 2013, 06:58:32 PM
Doesn't it say who the first badger ruler was?? Wasn't it Ceteruler or Bluestripe
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Osu on July 13, 2013, 02:15:46 AM
Brian Jacques never mentioned who the first Badgerlord/lady was. There were several names of past badger rulers listed a few times in various books (I couldn't say off the top of my head) and some fans believe the first badger is named among them (e.g., Ceteruler, etc.)
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Maudie on July 13, 2013, 03:07:10 AM
I always thought it was Spearlady Gorse, the first Mossflower badger to map the route to Salamandastron. But there might have been other non-Mossflorian badgers before her.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Osu on July 13, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
I don't recall reading Spearlady Gorse mapped a route to Salamandastron. Which book mentions it?

Personally, I like to think there were innumerable badgers going back long before the events of any Redwall book, too many to name. It seems more of a mystery that way, which I like. But of course, it's just as likely the first badger of Salamandastron was indeed named somewhere in the series. :)
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Redwaller on July 13, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
I don't remember it being so. But if you look at Mossflower, there's a little thing that doesn't fit:

In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Osu on July 14, 2013, 03:05:04 AM
Quote from: Redwaller on July 13, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.
I'd noticed that, too. Safe to say it can be chalked up to Mossflower being one of the early books, written while the Redwall universe was being worked out. There's also Outcast of Redwall, wherein the one hare family has become many once more.

I can see hares adventuring to the mountain and bringing their families up there, accounting for the hiccup in headcount between Mossflower and OoR, but how on earth did the hundreds of hares under Lord Brocktree get reduced to.... what was it again, ten?

This is one of those things I like to spend ridiculous amounts of time thinking about, haha.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Maudie on July 14, 2013, 07:08:08 AM
Quote from: Osu on July 13, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
I don't recall reading Spearlady Gorse mapped a route to Salamandastron. Which book mentions it?

Personally, I like to think there were innumerable badgers going back long before the events of any Redwall book, too many to name. It seems more of a mystery that way, which I like. But of course, it's just as likely the first badger of Salamandastron was indeed named somewhere in the series. :)

I believe it was Mossflower, where on the map to Salamandastron it says that she learned the way from a barnacle goose. I should reread it so that I have a better feel for what's goin' on...
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Redwaller on July 14, 2013, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: Osu on July 14, 2013, 03:05:04 AM
Quote from: Redwaller on July 13, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.
I'd noticed that, too. Safe to say it can be chalked up to Mossflower being one of the early books, written while the Redwall universe was being worked out. There's also Outcast of Redwall, wherein the one hare family has become many once more.

I can see hares adventuring to the mountain and bringing their families up there, accounting for the hiccup in headcount between Mossflower and OoR, but how on earth did the hundreds of hares under Lord Brocktree get reduced to.... what was it again, ten?

This is one of those things I like to spend ridiculous amounts of time thinking about, haha.
I think they were actually like five or six.

Also, in Lord Brocktree, Brocky goes to King Bucko Bigbones' court, where all of the hares have gone, so it means that before Lord Brocktree there were lots of hares too.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Osu on July 15, 2013, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Mask on July 14, 2013, 07:08:08 AM
I believe it was Mossflower, where on the map to Salamandastron it says that she learned the way from a barnacle goose. I should reread it so that I have a better feel for what's goin' on...
Ooh I need to reread that book, too. It's been years, I think, haha. ;D

Quote from: Redwaller on July 14, 2013, 01:06:54 PM
Also, in Lord Brocktree, Brocky goes to King Bucko Bigbones' court, where all of the hares have gone, so it means that before Lord Brocktree there were lots of hares too.
Makes sense. But where did all those hares go between Lord Brocktree and Boar?
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Maudie on July 15, 2013, 05:37:52 PM
Actually, the map was

Quote from: MossflowerGiven to Lady Sable Brock by Olav Skyfurrow the wildgoose, after she found him injured in Mossflower and tended his hurts. The beacon that my skein find its way to the sea by is called the strange mountain of the fire lizard.

So it was Lady Sable Brock, not Spearlady Gorse. I think it is probable that she was the first badger ruler of Salamandastron, or at least the first Mossflorian badger ruler, though there is possibility that she wasn't.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Daniel the crusader on July 17, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
how do all badgers and hares know the salamondaston war cry if  they never head about it ??? ???
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Daniel the crusader on July 17, 2013, 01:02:46 PM
Quote from: Daniel the crusader on July 17, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
how do all badgers and hares know the salamondaston war cry if  they never head about Salamondastron ??? ???
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Redwaller on July 17, 2013, 02:38:38 PM
No double post please. There's a shiny Modify button at the top of your post.  :)

And I'd say they all know it just like that, as they are drawn to Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Lady Amber on February 20, 2014, 10:43:07 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 11, 2013, 11:08:35 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
Are you sure of that? They're mystical carvings that predict the future, perhaps they were always there, even before creatures walked the earth.


How could the carvings be there without somebeast putting them there?
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Tam and Martin on February 20, 2014, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: Lady Amber on February 20, 2014, 10:43:07 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 11, 2013, 11:08:35 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 21, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Shade on June 21, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.
True but someone has to make it.
Are you sure of that? They're mystical carvings that predict the future, perhaps they were always there, even before creatures walked the earth.


How could the carvings be there without somebeast putting them there?
That what I am saying!
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Rusvul on February 21, 2014, 12:36:55 AM
Okay, supposing it's totally logical and it all makes sense, then how do you explain the fact that they predict the future? My point is, if it's magical, all bets are off.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Faiyloe on February 22, 2014, 03:00:59 PM
The answers to these questions are actually quite simple.

Q. Who made all the paintings in the room, foretelling all that would happen?
A. I think the badgers of the past made them under the influence of a trance sent by the dead. (You know how martin can do that.) different badger would add to it over the years.


Q. How do the ancient badger warriors bodies not stink and decay? Are they mummified ?
A. Yes I believe it said that somewhere.


Q. Do the paintings show what happened to the ancient badger warriors?
A. Yes at least some of them. If the pictures predicted what was to come then once that thing happened it showed what had happened. They don't just disappear. Also I think in one of the books it said something about the pictures showing the badgers of the past.
Title: Re: Salamandastron's Secret Room
Post by: Hazelrah42 on October 04, 2019, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: Lutra on June 15, 2013, 01:28:33 AM
Letsee here....

1.) Something wants to say the previous Badger Lord, but how would they know?  Maybe Salamandastron has a hare mystic or seer.

2.) Incense is pretty strong anyway.  Go into a small room with that stuff and I bet it can leave you wanting air.

3.) That would be my guess.

4.) Not sure; its never really explained what is in the room, except that its not for hares to see.  Its actually more mysterious because we never do find out.

I agree with Lutra here. I believe however it's a mix of both history and prophecy.