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Mattimeo.
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I am currently rereading it, and Slagar is just as much of a loser as I remember him to be :P
Quote from: alexandre on October 04, 2016, 02:48:14 PM
I am currently rereading it, and Slagar is just as much of a loser as I remember him to be :P
Ha ha ha, finally someone else!
I don't understand how Slagar could possibly be construed as a loser. The only reason he doesn't win is plot convenience, not though any fault of his own or particularly great effort on his enemies' part.
Malkariss was in charge of him.
The only reason he kidnapped the kids/teens in the first place was because Malkariss wanted him to.
And he fell into a well. ;0
Slagar always planned to betray Malkariss if I recall correctly. The only reason he worked for him was to get a territory of his own. And he kidnapped the kids at Redwall to get some revenge out of his business. It's not as if Malkariss specifically wanted children from Redwall.
Quote from: Jet the binturong on October 04, 2016, 10:17:06 PM
Slagar always planned to betray Malkariss if I recall correctly. The only reason he worked for him was to get a territory of his own. And he kidnapped the kids at Redwall to get some revenge out of his business. It's not as if Malkariss specifically wanted children from Redwall.
I just think Slagar was kind of a fool, in the way he tried to deal with Matthias and co.
He buried them in a cave. That's actually pretty smart. He also picked the greatest way to take vengeance out on Matthias. Its not his fault that Matthias proved to be stubbornly impossible to kill.
I really liked how many awesome characters were in this book, and how many were lost as well. Stonefleck, Log-a-log, Warbeak, all amazing characters. Its great to see the heroes thrown into so many tough situations, and it was only a little bit of luck, and a lot of courage to keep going.
I loved this book.
Slagar seemed lame to me, but everything else except that stupid Cynthia Bankvole makes me proud to call this one of my favorite entries in the series.
UGH CYNTHIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!2!2!2!3!2!2!!!!
Quote from: LT Sandpaw on October 05, 2016, 01:57:50 AM
He buried them in a cave. That's actually pretty smart. He also picked the greatest way to take vengeance out on Matthias. Its not his fault that Matthias proved to be stubbornly impossible to kill.
I really liked how many awesome characters were in this book, and how many were lost as well. Stonefleck, Log-a-log, Warbeak, all amazing characters. Its great to see the heroes thrown into so many tough situations, and it was only a little bit of luck, and a lot of courage to keep going.
*Punches Sand* I forgot that logalog dies :'( and I am currently rereading it.
Quote from: Sagetip on October 05, 2016, 02:31:48 AM
UGH CYNTHIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!2!2!2!3!2!2!!!!
!!!2!2!!2!2'qqnn
I'm rereading the book now and I can't say I agree with you guys in saying Slagar is lackluster or a loser. I think the guy is actually very very cunning! Think of his situation: his whole band is a group of bickering idiots, his cargo is a group of surprisingly fierce young ones (one of whom is a badger mind you) that he has to keep alive and in good health for delivery a huge distance away, and to make matters worse, he has a nearly unstoppable force chasing after him all the way. Admit it, he did really really well for what kind of situation he was in.
And another thing: this villain has depth! There's a big reveal in the first part of the story and we find out who he really is. Sure his revenge is all a misunderstanding - he hardly sees what he did as wrong even though it cost Methuselah his life. The best kinds of villains are the ones who think they're doing justice, and that's exactly what Slagar is doing. Well... to an extent.
Slagar is literally the best. He manages to trick and connive his way into Redwall, knock everyone unconscious and steal away their children. He buries his enemies alive in a cave and the only reason they could get out was plot convenience. He constantly used brilliant strategies to evade his pursuers (erasing their tracks, having them walk backwards out of the cave, using the Painted Ones' forest and the piranha-infested river to delay them) He tricked all of his band into killing each other so he could be the sole person to claim the reward for his service. He worked his revenge into his "career." He tricked Vitch into thinking he was important so that he had a bargaining chip to sweeten the deal with Malkariss and it worked. Malkariss gave him what he wanted. Slagar succeeded in achieving all of his goals, it's not his fault that the plot required him to die.
Quote from: Jetthebinturong on October 02, 2017, 11:33:13 PM
Slagar is literally the best. He manages to trick and connive his way into Redwall, knock everyone unconscious and steal away their children. He buries his enemies alive in a cave and the only reason they could get out was plot convenience. He constantly used brilliant strategies to evade his pursuers (erasing their tracks, having them walk backwards out of the cave, using the Painted Ones' forest and the piranha-infested river to delay them) He tricked all of his band into killing each other so he could be the sole person to claim the reward for his service. He worked his revenge into his "career." He tricked Vitch into thinking he was important so that he had a bargaining chip to sweeten the deal with Malkariss and it worked. Malkariss gave him what he wanted. Slagar succeeded in achieving all of his goals, it's not his fault that the plot required him to die.
Amen.
And he had a wildly successful career as an advice columnist and television host
after he was dead. Talk about being smart.
Hahaha I forgot about that! Does anyone have links to those?
STC's site was only available on Wayback for awhile, but it's up again: http://redlea.net/pslagar/view.php?page=news
Welcome to the tenth book in our series readalong event: Mattimeo! For those who have not already seen, here are a couple things to note before you start discussing:
- Please keep your posts here and in the entirety of the General Discussion board on-topic and constructive. When discussing topics like favorites, it always helps to give reasoning as to why you chose your favorite character, scene, etc. When in doubt, add more! It is always fun to see what other people think and respectfully debate with them.
- If you would like to participate but don't own the book, there are a few resources that may be of use to you. Libby, Audible, and (of course) your local library, are all good ways to rent books/audiobooks for free (Audible is free only for the first 30-day trial). There is no harm in permanently expanding your Redwall collection, though, if you can afford it!
- If you want even more Redwall discussion, please check out the Recorder on the Wall (http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.0) podcast episodes for the book! Every three weeks we will be posting the relevant episodes, so please check them out. Here are the episodes for Parts 1 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2004.mp3), 2 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2005.mp3), and 3 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2006.mp3) of Mattimeo!
- If you have created any writing, art, voice acting, or any other form of media based on this book and/or its characters, send a link (or image if it is art) to me through PMs and I will share it in this post! Seeing how other people portray the story through their own work is a wonderful way to be drawn deeper into the story and wider Redwall community.
Finally, here are a few guiding questions for discussion if you are unsure what to talk about:
- Who is your favorite character, and why do you regard them as your favorite?
- Who was your least favorite character, and why did they bother you?
- What was your favorite scene? What stuck out to you about it?
- What are your thoughts on the book as a whole? Where does it rank against other Redwall books and why?
- Do you have any theories or small details others may not have picked up on when reading?
- And anything else you want to mention!
Have fun, and happy discussing!
Haven't read Mattimeo in a hot minute, as I like to group the books seasonally, and always liked to think of Mattimeo as a mid-late summer read. Having said that, it's been read enough times and it ranks highly enough- so here are some quick thoughts!
On the Characters
I think of Mattimeo, along with The Bellmaker, being one of the only true sequels within the series. We see many of the same returning characters from Redwall (with the exceptions of the Solitary Beaver, Mr Squirrel, and Mr Fieldmouse- pour one out for them!) and they all show natural growth from when we first met them. I wish this was something Jacques had done more often. The main cast of characters returns, and we get to see them readily adapting to the plotline as need be. It's still the same Matthias, Cornflower, Basil Stag Hare, Constance, and Jess Squirrel- but we see them develop logically from how we last saw them- unlike in say, Legend of Luke, where only Martin seems to have developed as a character, while all of the rest have remained static and same-same as they were when we first met them.
I very much liked the children and their plotline, particularly the Churchmouse twins and Sam Squirrel, who were dibbuns of varying importance in the background of Redwall. I loved the complexity of emotions that these characters showed throughout the book after being first introduced as twee, cutesy set-dressing in the previous book. Their sorrow and anger and joy I found entirely relatable and endearing.
I felt for the children so much, and everything they went through. Especially Cynthia who imo undeservedly receives far too much hate for her character. Her character was entirely believable and her handling of her fate is honestly how I would imagine most of us would fall into. We all like to think that we'd be a stoic and headstrong leader if we found ourselves in these absolutely unimaginable circumstances. The grim reality is that if we were kidnapped and enslaved as children, by the same villains that had murdered our mother, and with no hope of rescue or escape, to find our courage in the end as Cynthia did would take strength of character far beyond any of us.
Mattimeo's growth as a character I've come to enjoy greatly and went from fully agreeing with the Abbey elders in that he was a spoiled, entitled little brat, who came into his own much like his father, needing to grow up fast when a champion was needed. What I liked was the parallel between father and son.
In Redwall Matthias decided that by circumstances he would become a warrior, because it was what was needed by the Abbey. As it would turn out, during the quest for Martin's sword, in doing so he was fulfilling the legacy of Martin the Warrior, that had been foretold many untold seasons prior.
Mattimeo, a priveleged and badly behaved child, was expected to uphold his father's legacy, being the son of the Abbey Warrior. In the end though he became a warrior, not by virtue of his father's legacy, but because the circumstances required it.
Jacques had a lot of quotes in interviews about what his views of what a warrior should be, and I think that Mattimeo may be one of those characters that exemplify this the best. As it turns out, Mattimeo wasn't especially adept in combat, he wasn't about to engage an enemy in a pitched battle or in trial by combat. He wasn't his father, who held his own against Cluny the Scourge, nor was he Martin the Warrior who defeated a wildcat single-pawed. A major turning point was when Matthias was buried alive in the landslide, and Mattimeo thought that his father was as good as dead. Up until that point, he still carried a great amount of arrogance and insolence towards Slagar, knowing that his father would soon catch up with his captors and right the situation- as had always been the case when he was a dibbun constantly causing troubles at the Abbey.
But he very quickly changes after this, and the gravity of his situation hits. Despair finally finds itself in his friends, such as Auma and Jube and Sam Squirrel, who had up until this point shown varying levels of resilience. Mattimeo knows now that he must show his strength for his friends first and foremost. Most significantly he changes his attitude towards Cynthia and mirrors the strength that his mother Cornflower taught the importance of, being compassionate to those who need it the most.
This quote earlier on, from father to son, seems appropriate to describe Mattimeo's hero's journey:
"Weapons may be carried by creatures who are evil, dishonest, violent or lazy. The true warrior is good, gentle and honest. His bravery comes from within himself; he learns to conquer his own fears and misdeeds"