Redwall Abbey

For discussion related to the book Salamandastron.

@James Gryphon: If these topics are considered unnecessary please delete.

I liked it alot as a kid, mostly because of the bittersweet ending with Mara and her adoptive father.

      II am currently re-reading it, and it is a lot better than I remembered it to be. The toad tribe seemed to be the same one as in Mossflower, with the same hole too.  :P Also, Mara seems very real and not a Sue, as a matter of fact, none of the heroes seem to be Mary-Sues, which is rare in Redwall books. I also like how there is a back story to Urthstripe, Urthwhyte, and Ferahgo. Sure it is not much, at least of Ferahgo's history, but it is also something that is lacked in the other books. Side note: I think Jacques could have come up with a better title than "The Assassin," because by definition, an assassin is someone who is hired. Ferahgo works for nobody, though the name does sound intimidating. Please share more of your opinions about the book, especially those of you who didn't like it much. I am curious as to your reasons.

Maybe he was hired and then assassinated whoever hired him and took over?

Quote from: Ashleg on September 30, 2016, 01:53:44 AM
Maybe he was hired and then assassinated whoever hired him and took over?

     Hmm... Idoubt that one like Ferahgo would ever be subject to hiring...

He had to start somewhere.

Quote from: Ashleg on September 30, 2016, 04:38:56 AM
He had to start somewhere.

      But... It it did say he was quite a young villain when he murdered Urthstripe's parents. I think he wouldn't have kept the title even if he had once been an assassin, it would remind him of not being the leader...

...That would be mercenaries. Assassins kill by surprise, not necessarily for hire though.

I think it's just a title for when he was still a small band leader. It's a good title, so why would he change it once he became big time?

Maybe because I just really wanted to read Martin the Warrior next, but I did not like this book at all. I don't remember the plot, the characters, only the villain. Wasn't there some type of disease or something?

Quote from: Gonff the Mousethief on September 30, 2016, 01:21:05 PM
Maybe because I just really wanted to read Martin the Warrior next, but I did not like this book at all. I don't remember the plot, the characters, only the villain. Wasn't there some type of disease or something?

     

Spoiler

That was another reason why it was such a good book, it differed from the normal Redwall format, it dealt with a new problem other than villains, a potentially more deadly problem:

Disease

.

[close]

Welcome to the seventh book in our series readalong event: Salamandastron!

For those who have not already seen, here are a couple things to note before you start discussing:

• Please keep your posts here and in the entirety of the General Discussion board on-topic and constructive. When discussing topics like favorites, it always helps to give reasoning as to why you chose your favorite character, scene, etc. When in doubt, add more! It is always fun to see what other people think and respectfully debate with them.
• If you would like to participate but don't own the book, there are a few resources that may be of use to you. Libby, Audible, and (of course) your local library, are all good ways to rent books/audiobooks for free (Audible is free only for the first 30-day trial). There is no harm in permanently expanding your Redwall collection though if you can afford it!
• If you want even more Redwall discussion, please check out the Recorder on the Wall (http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.0) podcast episodes for the book! Every three weeks we will be posting the relevant episodes, so please check them out. Here are the episodes for Parts 1 (http://traffic.libsyn.com/frustratedfans/Recorder_Episode_31.mp3), 2 (http://traffic.libsyn.com/frustratedfans/Recorder_Episode_32.mp3), and 3 (http://traffic.libsyn.com/frustratedfans/Recorder_Episode_33.mp3) of Salamandastron!
• If you have created any writing, art, voice acting, or any other form of media based on this book and/or its characters, send a link (or image if it is art) to me through PMs and I will share it in this post! Seeing how other people portray the story through their own work is a wonderful way to be drawn deeper into the story and wider Redwall community.

Finally, here are a few guiding questions for discussion if you are unsure what to talk about:

• Who is your favorite character, and why do you regard them as your favorite?
• Who was your least favorite character, and why did they bother you?
• What was your favorite scene? What stuck out to you about it?
• What are your thoughts on the book as a whole? Where does it rank against other Redwall books and why?
• Do you have any theories or small details others may not have picked up on when reading?
• And anything else you want to mention!

Have fun, and happy discussing!

I think it's just generally unremarkable and unmemorable. I read it for the second time a week ago and can barely remember the names of the main characters, and half of those I only know because they were referenced in other books.

I'm going to say that my favourite character is probably Ferahgo's son, but I can't even remember his name. My least favourite, I'm not entirely sure.

There were a few things that annoyed me. The general distrust of vermin - had Ferahgo's son actually done anything bad at that point? If anything, hadn't he helped Mara get back to Salamandastron? Yes, he did mean harm, but they had no reason to suspect that except for him being a vermin and Urthstripe being suspicious for a reason he can't remember.

There's also a point where someone says that Samkim would never harm anybody with his bow, except he'd almost killed someone before. He was also barely punished when he continued shooting at people, even if he didn't hit anyone in that case. They still let him play around with a potentially deadly weapon, even if the abbeybeasts seem to view archery as a sport. And then, when he goes after the two vermin on his own (well, I think he had one other beast with him) someone says that they would have taken him along to hunt them down if he hadn't gone alone, which to me doesn't make sense. It's irresponsible and rewarding bad behaviour.

On the topic of being irresponsible, somebody (the one going to the mountains to find a cure) takes a dibbun with him and doesn't tell anyone. It's dangerous, and when the abbeybeasts find out the dibbun is missing, of course they're going to search for the dibbun. If someone hadn't worked out that he'd taken the dibbun with him (which if wrong would have been disastrous, and that they thought it likely demonstrates a lot), they'd have been panicking, and wouldn't have given up searching, which could have been dangerous if there were still members of Ferahgo's army around, or other potential enemies. Even if it did turn out okay (and the dibbun seemed to be the reason it did), it's still irresponsible.

I think somebody said something that implied that sparrows are weak, which is odd when taking into account Redwall (which was definitely published before Salamandastron) and Mattimeo (which I'm fairly certain was as well).

I'd say it definitely ranks among my least favourite. Whether that's partly because I'm older than I was when reading most of the other Redwall books, and don't have the same childhood memories associated with it, I'm not sure.

Hear, hear, @Booklover! I haven't finished rereading the book yet (I read it once nearly twenty years ago, but I virtually forgot it completely! Even when trying to remember the chronological order of the books, I sometimes forget about it!)

I don't exactly have a favorite character yet, though I did genuinely enjoy Dingeye and Thura. First off, they're stoats, and I love mustelids, especially stoats. Second, they're such idiots and actually quite nice that it's sad that they don't make it. And the fact Samkim and Arula aren't even sad to learn they've died and are eager to head after them, treating like they're evil even though just earlier, they thought of them as genuine friends! Sure, they have no idea that Brother Hal's death was an accident, but given the stoats' demeanors, they should've at least thought, "No, I can't believe they'd do this! They were so nice! It might've been an accident!"
(Btw, Ferahgo's son's name is Klitch)

I don't have a least favorite—I have multiple.
First off, Urthstripe. As you pointed out, he's basically a racist towards vermin and is mean to Klitch and Goffa for no good reason. Sure, they turned out to be evil, but they had no way of knowing that. You have to love it when Mara gets upset with him for his racism. Also, note he dumps forge oil down the slopes of Salamadastron, then sends boulders down, laughing, knowing the boulders will crush the vermin, causing them to drop their torches, and make ginormous fireballs! And people say Rawnblade's a bloodthirsty psychopath!
Secondly, Dumble. I don't care that he's a baby, he's annoying, and when the crows almost took off with him, I wished they would eat him! But of course, BJ'd never write a Dibbun's death. He's got some weird love of their little toddler antics.
Thirdly, Pikkle Ffolger. When the eating contest between him and Tubbgutt happened, I was like, "Great. It's a young Basil." Basil was awesome and funny in Redwall, but that was because he was a supporting character—we only got him every now and then, making him awesome and funny. But when Basil became a main character in Mattimeo, he won't shut up about food, constantly asking when the next meal is, which gets annoying very fast, and he barely makes up for it (and his rudeness towards others) when he commands the archers and slingers at the end. Well, almost every hare has the exact same personality. Pikkle will not shut up about food.

You are right about Samkim and Arula not getting punished for nearly shooting a character, however, they made Samkim swear never to touch archery equipment again, and he kept his promise. Once they determined that Samkim hadn't killed Brother Hal, they were going to include him in the search party because he was becoming friends with the stoats, so they were letting him search for his friends, not rewarding bad behavior.

Of course, Thrugg bringing Dumble along was stupid and irresponsible. DUMBLE'S A BABY!!! YOU ARE GOING ON A DANGEROUS MISSION!!! YOU DON'T BRING BABIES ALONG ON LIFE-THREATENING MISSION!!!

Also, when the foxes pretended to be beggars, Thrugg could've at least offered them food before treating them hostilely. Yes, the foxes probably would've killed them, but Thrugg treats them as evil simply because they're foxes and doesn't even pretend to believe they might just actually be hungry beggars! Ugh, BJ, when did you decide to make the "peace-loving goodbeasts" racists?!

As for someone implying sparrows are weak, that would've been Rocangus the fledgling falcon. Of course, to a bird of prey, a sparrow would be considered weak—raptors eat songbirds like sparrows!

Quote from: Masika on January 28, 2021, 01:35:09 AM
I don't have a least favorite—I have multiple.
First off, Urthstripe. As you pointed out, he's basically a racist towards vermin and is mean to Klitch and Goffa for no good reason. Sure, they turned out to be evil, but they had no way of knowing that. You have to love it when Mara gets upset with him for his racism. Also, note he dumps forge oil down the slopes of Salamadastron, then sends boulders down, laughing, knowing the boulders will crush the vermin, causing them to drop their torches, and make ginormous fireballs! And people say Rawnblade's a bloodthirsty psychopath!

I mean, from what I remember he doesn't expilictly not trust JUST because their vermin. Urthstripe may have just had a feeling that they were untrustworthy. Also, everyone in the Redwll series is rascist against vermin, except for a few small cases. Nobody trusts vermin because they're never trustworthy.
Also, the whole laughing as they die. That's every badger. In fact, that's most "good" animals in the series. There have been many a moment where redwallers have sat down and enjoyed the pain of the vermin. Plus, these vermin are a flaying terrible horde led by an evil psychopath who are trying to kill Urthstripe and his friends and family.
I liked Urthstripe throughout the book. I thought it was Mara who was being the unreasonable one.
The only moment where I got aggravated over something like that was later in this book a GUOSIM (or whatever they're called in this book) shrew kills a prisoner rat and gets alost no punishment for it. The actualy punishment for killing a prisoner who was promised his freedom is jail for life and maybe even execution. I felt like he should have been punished more.