So, just to get things rolling, I'm gonna ask everyone: Who is your favorite bad guy from Martin the Warrior? I don't care how minor they are, as long as they're vermin (with the exception of Druwp). O.K., my favorite is Skalrag (obviously).
Felldoh is my favorite, but I also really like Ballaw
^ Felldoh doesn't qualify as a bad guy on most radars. ;)
I haven't been able to like Skalrag since I heard his voice on the tv series. Just the wrong voice...too high pitched for what I consider a bad vermin character. He could pass for Rizzo on the Muppets!
Its hard to choose between bad guys here, but I think the antics between Clogg and Badrang are most amusing, if nothing else, if they can't get along, why do even bother trying to work together? You just know its never going to work, so we await the next shouting match or tantrum with anticipation. ;D
O.K., you can name your favorite goodbeast too, as long as they were at Marshank at some time or another before the final battle. Ex. Queen Ambala, the Warden, or Rose don't count.
Quote from: Lutra on August 02, 2011, 01:35:14 PM
I haven't been able to like Skalrag since I heard his voice on the tv series. Just the wrong voice...too high pitched for what I consider a bad vermin character. He could pass for Rizzo on the Muppets!
I'm the opposite. I love Skalrag BECAUSE of his voice. I'm sorry, I just adore foxes. ;D
I liked the corsair dude - uhh what was his name...? Truman Clogg? Ohhh boy do I need to reread the Martin books...
Clogg v.s. Badrang was quite entertaining, actually. ;D My LEAST favorite character would have to be Druwp. I HATE HIM!!!!!!!! Sorry, random moment.
Cloggs funny. He's got to be about the best villian in the first three books- after Cluny, of course. ;D
Cluny is awesome.
Quote from: Lutra on August 02, 2011, 01:35:14 PM
^ Felldoh doesn't qualify as a bad guy on most radars. ;)
I haven't been able to like Skalrag since I heard his voice on the tv series. Just the wrong voice...too high pitched for what I consider a bad vermin character. He could pass for Rizzo on the Muppets!
Its hard to choose between bad guys here, but I think the antics between Clogg and Badrang are most amusing, if nothing else, if they can't get along, why do even bother trying to work together? You just know its never going to work, so we await the next shouting match or tantrum with anticipation. ;D
Oops, I didn't see bad guys there, I only saw favorite characters
Whatever. It really doesn't matter, as long as it has SOMETHING to do with Marshank, please.
Aren't we supposed to be discussing Marshank itself, not the inhabitants? I never understood the prison pit. It's not like you could imprison a mole down there, and any creature, no matter what the species, could dig it's way out with it's paws after a while.
That's what I always thought. The prison pit wasn't all that creative. In the TV series, they made it look so easy to escape from...
I personally think Badrang was an idiot. What kind of fool would make a fortress out of wood? I mean, come on! Anyone with a torch could EASILY burn it down! He was the biggest idiot alive. Plus I love how Clogg always made a fool out of him. ;D
Badrang is definitely not one of my favorite villains... :P
Clogg was none the wiser then if he didn't try to burn the place down. ;) Same goes for the slaves because they must have had torches around to light the place.
The prison pit didn't look too dangerous. Maybe the slaves didn't have the energy to dig by hand...maybe it was packed dirt or something since Martin and Felldoh seemed perfectly content to wait for Grumm to show up.
I loved Badrang. He was awesome.
I wonder what happened to Marshank after the events of Martin the Warrior...
I THINK the goodbeasts burned it. :'(
No, I'm pretty sure they left it standing as a reminder or monument
I think they left Clogg living there..mad as ever. I don't think he was able to do much with it though given his condition. :P
What exactly was wrong with clogg? I haven't read MTW in a long time
He sort of went crazy.
Yeah, Badrang smacked him with the butt of a pike and he became crazy and mad
I liked Clogg. He was one of the best and funniest villians, right up there with Grubbage and Blaggut.
Yeah, he's a classic villain. ;D :D
*SPOILER ALERT!!* I love how he's holding a one-sided coversation with Badrang's corpse at the end of the book. Gruesome, I'll grant you, but funny.
I think he's disgusting and creepy. :-\ :P
I hate how they made him in the TV show, all fat and stained. :P Bluuugh.
Yeah, they did kinda ruin him in the show. >:( He's awesome in the book though. :)
Quote from: Nightfire on August 08, 2011, 03:12:14 PM
Yeah, they did kinda ruin him in the show. >:(
Yeah that's what I thought. It didnt really look like he was crazy in the show
What would crazy appear like to you guys then?
Good point. :P I think we all can classify as crazy. Okay then, he was loony.
Tiria, I know this is totally off topic, but what kind of animal is Tiria?
She's an otter. And she is the High Rhulain. And she is pure awesomeness.
Oh.
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! :D
Nightfire, please make your posts more meaningful.
Yeah, Tiria is an otter. And yeah, she is pure awesomeness. ;D That's why I chose her to be my avatar. ;D
My posts are usually meaningful. It just every now and then I have the sudden and random urge to laugh like Slagar the Cruel.
The topic at hand concerns Fort Marshank, try to keep to that, and/or take your discussion elsewhere where it is welcome and fitting.
Why did Badrang build Marshank out of wood? He must have known that a drunk toad with no eyes and only one leg could have burned it down!!!
LOL. Guess he didn't think anyone would DARE burn down his precious fortress...
Maybe twas magic wood...
The US cover of Martin the Warrior has a picture of Marshank on the back.
(http://www.sullivanet.com/redwall/encyc/scans/marshank.jpg)
See how it's showing it being burned down? I think they actually burned it but left the stone base as a reminder.
That picture is when Martin was burning the door down with the Rambling Rosehip Players' old cart.
Well, if the whole thing's wood, the fire could have spread.
Well, they [the vermin] were thra'in' water on it tae get rid o' the fire.
I think he did it because it was faster and easier.
He did want to get it finished by Autumn...
Yeah, but then again, the snow would turn to water when it melted again in Spring, softening the wood and possibly even rotting it. I know this, because I once accidentally left a wooden shield outside during the winter of the Head-Deep snows, and by springtime, it was so soft that I touched it lightly with my foot and it fell apart! And it was really strong oak wood too.
Only other thing I can think of with this wood vs. something else discussion is maybe the explanation of building it. We aren't quite positive how Redwall is actually built using creatures such as mice. Maybe they're like Egyptians and used some really smart techniques. You got me on that one. Marshank is built on the backs of slaves, and my suspicion is a slave isn't going to be able to handle stone quarrying, Egyptian techniques or not. You needed to be fit and strong to move that stuff. Wood isn't nearly as heavy, and it looks like the long poles just needed to be straightened up....easier than piling blocks one on top of another if you're a weakened slave.
More food for thought....
Well, it does mention a rock quarry. Remember how they stole chunks of stone to use as weapons, and they were talking about working there?
Maybe he was building a wooden wall first, then he'd work on a stone wall after? Besides, Badrang is no idiot. I'm sure he took rotting into account when he was building his fort
Yes, you're right. Badrang was not stupid, even though he's one of my least favorite characters..
The cartoon makes him look like a wolf, not a stoat! :D
I know! He's meant to look like this:
(http://www.scruta.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/stoat.jpg)
Aww! ;D
Badrangs so cute!...ish
Hahaha! :D That picture is both hilarious and scary! :D
Actually Clogg is supposed to be like that too...only rounder and larger. Would you ever guess both Badrang and Clogg are supposed to be the same species when you see a picture like this?
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/mr300/badrang-and-clogg.jpg)
Guess, Nelvana's forte wasn't stoats or weasels. :P
Yeah. In Redwall, the made Scragg the weasel look like a rat... :P
There is NO distinction between vermin species in the TV show. :(
I know. The only species that you can really tell is rat, and sometimes even not that.
Yeah, Im sure Badrang thought of the rotting. However, the fotress of Riggu Felis in High Rhulain was up for ages, yet, while dry, never rotted. ???
But how do we know that Riggu's fortress was up for that long
Quote from: Tiria Wildlough on September 25, 2011, 05:48:50 AM
There is NO distinction between vermin species in the TV show. :(
Well, you can tell which ones are rats; skinny, naked tail and (usually) buck teeth. The other ones have bushy tails. The ferrets USUALLY have the darkish "mask" over their eyes (Bluehide, Halftail), but not all the time (Killconey).
Clogg looks like a bear...
Heehee. You're right. ;D
Bears have long tails? :o ;) He is hardly a bear, but its hard to justify what he is when others of his kind were designed like Hisk....or Badrang.
I was always annoyed at the indistinction between vermin kinds as well. And they made Clogg look gross. :P And back on subject, Riggu Felis' fortress was in a drier area than Marshank was, wasn't it?
Well it was right next to a lake, so it wasn't dry. But Marshank still might have been wetter.
I'm not really sure why Badrang built his fortress out of wood. However, it's worth mentioning that he was paranoid that Clogg would show up and wanted to have a shelter from him. Perhaps he figured that a complete wooden fortress would be better than a half-finished stone fortress. I'd certainly feel safer with a whole fortress--even a wooden one. As others have mentioned, Badrang was not stupid (he did think of coming in through the tunnel the slaves dug, after all); he had to have some backup plan. It's also possible that Clogg was his only threat--that he had conquered the coastlands for miles around and didn't have to worry about anybeast trying to overthrow him from the countryside.
As to what happened to Marshank, I believe that the fire destroyed a good part of it (the soldiers became too busy with fighting for their lives to continue fighting the fire), but that part of it was still standing. (I seem to remember a description of Clogg among the ruins) Probably it just stayed there until the forces of nature took their toll. Although it IS interesting that Martin didn't pass Marshank's ruin in TLOL since Badrang caught him where he had wandered away from the caves.
I think Marshank's ruin was probably smashed into nothing by the forces of nature by the time that Martin sailed by in the Honeysuckle. Plus the fact that he had zillions of bad memories of that place, so he would want to avoid the place where Rose was killed.
Eh, I personally think there would have been something left. However, you're right in that Martin would have definately tried to steer clear of it. I was just wondering if he would have avoided it, since it was right on the coast. Well, it did say that Badrang wandered for many seasons (during which time Windred died) so it's possible that it actually was farther away than I thought. *sigh* Oh the imponderable aspects of fiction! ;D
Well, maybe Amballa's Pygmy Shrews (cough, cough) I mean HIGHBEASTS, came back and completely destroyed it. Or Clogg destroyed it just to spite the dead Badrang.
How would Clogg be able to destroy it?
Quote from: Plugg Firetail on October 08, 2011, 01:09:43 AM
How would Clogg be able to destroy it?
At least if you have seen the tv series, fires were still smoldering so I suppose it is possible to burn all the wooden parts away. At least in theory..you'd need ideal conditions. I'm not sure why Clogg would want to burn it. He kept saying how he'd want Marshank for himself.
He was crazy. Maybe he had a sudden change of mind, or something.
Quote from: Lutra on August 09, 2011, 04:07:28 AM
What would crazy appear like to you guys then?
ragged hair and fur going crazy, thinking aloud crazy thoughts!Also my little brother thought that badrang was a badger in the show!
Tramun Clogg and Badrang are pretty cool!
Um... I liked the vermin in the t.v show, but not in the book.
I thought they did a bad job of clogg in the tv show. The book did much better
Quote from: Felldoh154 on July 05, 2012, 01:17:59 PM
I thought they did a bad job of clogg in the tv show. The book did much better
The tv show will hardly please everyone out there. What did you find bad about Clogg? I didn't think he was half bad in the show; they did follow his character from the book, and the end result was the same.
1. His voice was kinda strange
2. Can't tell WHAT he is. My lil bro watched it from start to finish and thought badrang was a dog and had no idea what clogg was. Although he was moderately inclined to think clogg was a fat mouse. He may only be 8 but still lol
I do agree that the end was as good, if not better in the movie as it was in the book
Quote2. Can't tell WHAT he is. My lil bro watched it from start to finish and thought badrang was a dog and had no idea what clogg was. Although he was moderately inclined to think clogg was a fat mouse. He may only be 8 but still lol
Seems to be a common complaint with the TV series. Can't complain with that. Worst example of not knowing the species is Killconey from season 1 but well, weasels and stoats look a lot alike in real life too. ;)
I like Tramun Clogg. He's smart. When I read Martin the Warrior for the first time I kept expecting him to die, like most vermin do, but he didn't.
Lutra--I still enjoy watching the tv series despite that though, they did a great job overall! I just wish they could have done the rest of the books to!
Skyblade--I loved clogg at the end of the book and movie he was hilarious :) crazy, but hilarious
I'm sorry but I thought the t.v show was really well done.
It was for the most part
I liked it because of Keyla. He rocks
Quote from: Redwallfan7 on July 18, 2012, 06:25:13 PM
I liked it because of Keyla. He rocks
Begs the question....Keyla from the book or Keyla from the series? When I heard the audiobook, I heard this really deep sailor voice from Keyla indicating, he's probably older than Martin and Felldoh. When you look at the tv series, they have Noah Reid doing the voice (he also voiced a certain green turtle from Nelvana) and you would think Keyla was the same age as Martin and Felldoh--all young adults. Gives a different picture of the otter, even if his mannerisms are kept the same. If you look at the books, you think the wisdom comes with age, but you hear the younger voice of the tv series, Keyla acts as though he's got the wisdom of one with "many more years experience and life" as the cliche goes. ;)
Yes I thought Keyla was a girl in the TV series.....His name is also a bit girly too.
Quote from: Lutra on July 19, 2012, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: Redwallfan7 on July 18, 2012, 06:25:13 PM
I liked it because of Keyla. He rocks
Begs the question....Keyla from the book or Keyla from the series? When I heard the audiobook, I heard this really deep sailor voice from Keyla indicating, he's probably older than Martin and Felldoh. When you look at the tv series, they have Noah Reid doing the voice (he also voiced a certain green turtle from Nelvana) and you would think Keyla was the same age as Martin and Felldoh--all young adults. Gives a different picture of the otter, even if his mannerisms are kept the same. If you look at the books, you think the wisdom comes with age, but you hear the younger voice of the tv series, Keyla acts as though he's got the wisdom of one with "many more years experience and life" as the cliche goes. ;)
From the t.v series. I loved him in the book also. I've never heard the audio book. I really liked his outfit and voice in The show.
Oh my gosh, my brother (10) used to be OBSESSED with Keyla. And Cheek from Mattimeo. He's got a thing for otters. ;D
Otters and foxes rule!!
Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!
Skalrag rocks, I also like Fortunata.
8) I prefer Badger Lords and wolverines. 8)
Stay on topic please! ;)
Totally Clogg, he's awesome. And I like how they made him look in the TV series.
How much of the fort do you think was stone, and how much do you guys think it was wood?
No clue. :D I really like Clogg. The way he talks almost seems like a Viking.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on November 23, 2012, 04:10:51 PM
How much of the fort do you think was stone, and how much do you guys think it was wood?
I think It was made of a lot of wood.
Quote from: 321tumbler on December 29, 2012, 02:38:25 AM
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on November 23, 2012, 04:10:51 PM
How much of the fort do you think was stone, and how much do you guys think it was wood?
I think It was made of a lot of wood.
You are most likely right because it burned down so well.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on December 29, 2012, 02:51:13 AM
Quote from: 321tumbler on December 29, 2012, 02:38:25 AM
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on November 23, 2012, 04:10:51 PM
How much of the fort do you think was stone, and how much do you guys think it was wood?
I think It was made of a lot of wood.
You are most likely right because it burned down so well.
But it also says in
Martin the Warrior that stone was also used in the making of Fortress Marshank.
You know, wether it was wood or stone, not all wood burns easily. Some wood may as well be rock. (Not talking about petrified wood.) You can break your axe on certain kinds of wood. But in the book it burned down so whatevs.
Quote from: Norham Waterpaw on April 07, 2013, 02:02:04 PM
You know, wether it was wood or stone, not all wood burns easily. Some wood may as well be rock. (Not talking about petrified wood.) You can break your axe on certain kinds of wood. But in the book it burned down so whatevs.
Since the Fort did burn down, then it had to be just normal wood. But how do you explaine the rock?
Quote from: Nightfire on August 02, 2011, 09:01:37 PM
Cloggs funny. He's got to be about the best villian in the first three books- after Cluny, of course. ;D
"Martin the Warrior" is not one of the first three books.
Quote from: Shadowed One on April 12, 2013, 01:50:42 PM
Quote from: Nightfire on August 02, 2011, 09:01:37 PM
Cloggs funny. He's got to be about the best villian in the first three books- after Cluny, of course. ;D
"Martin the Warrior" is not one of the first three books.
Yep, Martin the Warrior is the sixth book.
I like Skalrag a lot, he's awesome.