For discussion related to the book
Martin the Warrior.
@James Gryphon: If these topics are considered unnecessary please delete.
Who doesnt like Martin the Warrior? Its a heavy, dark, emotional book, one I dont reread often, but its powerful, gripping and beautiful. The conflict that grows between Brome and Felldoh, a peaceful youngster and a hardened warrior,
Felldoh, Rose, and Martin Major Arcs
Felldoh's epic death, the conflict within Martin between fighting to uphold what's right and his occasional reckless, vengeful feelings, and Rose's death,
and so much more - all epic. Martin is just an awesome character.
Giant Martin The Warrior Spoiler Warning, If You Have Not Read It All The Way To The End, Do Not Look
Spoiler
Rose Died... Rose Died...
Rose Died... Rose Died... Rose Died... Rose Died... Rose Died...Rose Died...
Rose Died Rose Died rose dies rose died rose died rose dies Rose Is DeadI have trouble rereading the book, I have to stop myself from bursting into tears anytime she talks to Martin :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( I don't know how Jacques did it, but I was much more affected by Rose's death than I usually am to that sort of thing in literature, It is like Jacques' writing reached into my soul and twisted the fibers of emotion that create sadness. :'( :'( I didn't even cry when Dumbledore died :-\
Sometimes it is even hard not to cry during *Mossflower* when Martin tells his lie about how he came to Mossflower, knowing the hardships he has faced :'(
DUDE! SPOILERS!
Not that they are for me, but. . . . . That's a massive spoiler.
Quote from: Peony on October 04, 2016, 02:40:46 AM
DUDE! SPOILERS!
Not that they are for me, but. . . . . That's a massive spoiler.
I fixed it, gosh, I forgot to put the spoiler. Thanks for the reminder
Odd one out.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I didn't give a flyin' sheep about Rose and I still don't.
The rest of the book was decent.
Not one of my favorites but still good, and Felldoh and Brome were really something.
So was Badrang, but Clogg repeatedly tread on my nerves.
Quote from: Ashleg on October 04, 2016, 03:21:36 AM
Odd one out.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I didn't give a flyin' sheep about Rose and I still don't.
The rest of the book was decent.
Not one of my favorites but still good, and Felldoh and Brome were really something.
So was Badrang, but Clogg repeatedly tread on my nerves.
I Don't Understand your View on Rose, Clogg was awesome comic relief.
I don't understand what you guys see in her either! :P
For me, she was just extremely boring and had no outstanding traits besides her singing voice and the fact she loved Martin.
Cornflower was so much more appealing.
Clogg was annoying.
Quote from: Ashleg on October 04, 2016, 06:05:37 AM
I don't understand what you guys see in her either! :P
For me, she was just extremely boring and had no outstanding traits besides her singing voice and the fact she loved Martin.
Cornflower was so much more appealing.
Clogg was annoying.
But Clogg was FUNNY. In Redwall, the comic relief is often the secondary villain, how was he annoying?
Huh, long time since last post ;D
Spoiler
It seems like Rose's death is everything this book was about, which is false.
The evolution of some characters during the book is nicely built, and the number 1 priority of the protagonist seems unchangeable, which leads to the loss of everything else. This makes me think of the wrong habit of choosing the materialistic goods over love and familiy, or it teaches us that the will of a warrior is as strong as something we can't move or destroy.
Now the thing with Rose, some people get affected and some not. This relays on our personality. One can be more emotional and care more about some characters than the other. And also there is this belief with living at the same time with the characters and taking part in their actions, like you are there in the same place with them, when reading a book. The personality of Rose made a lot of readers to treat her as their own friend rather than a hero because of her tenderness. And that's why her death in the end hurt us as much as the one of a real friend. There is also the sad aftermath. I'm not a big fan of the ending of the book as I said in one of my posts, that's why I consider the ending of the book based cartoon better and sadder, accompanied by that song also.
The other category of readers are much more attracted by characters with a strong personality, full of dynamism, who act in an astonishing way in battles and stressful situations. Characters that are funny, cunning,
ingenios. In this case Rose doesn't have much to offer. It's like she's standing in Martin's shadow, and her death make these readers to care more about the suffering of the Warrior, rather than the ending itself.
Now, I'm not a psychologist, this is just my opinion based on different studies on readers' reactions, posts, and character development. Also I don't like to reread books, I don't find the point in reading anymore something that has its action well known to me. Of course, if you want to feel again some emotions, go ahead, but you can't feel all the emotions that book gave you in the first place.
Also I find it necessary to tell the ones who read the book recently, or are experiencing the same feelings again to chill out, many of us felt the same way like you, but the thing is, in the end, every character from that book or the books that follow it will die sooner or later, by sword or by age, or will dissapear mysteriously (the ones who read all the books will know what I say). And even though Brian Jacques himself said that the series have nothing to do with religion, still we see in his writtings references to after life ( like the Dark Forest or Hellgates ). The best example is in the book Mossflower, in the end.
As funny as it seems, yes, there are people that sensitive, many of them won't hurt a fly, but this is another proof that every human is different.
P.S Vulpuz is actually a fox, his name resembles the italian word for fox, as well as the romanian one
Quote from: alexandre on October 04, 2016, 02:17:19 PM
But Clogg was FUNNY. In Redwall, the comic relief is often the secondary villain, how was he annoying?
How he was
not annoying is past me, as the things I deem annoying were probably the ones you said were funny.
On the subject of Clogg, I quite enjoyed him as comic relief. One of my favorite moments was when the hare asked him to give his word on something and he placed his hand on his stomach because he valued his stomach over his heart. ;D
But my favorite scene in the entire book was the comedic skit by the players. The one with the drum...gah! I barely remember it. :P
I should reread MTW so I can get annoyed by Rose again!
Today I finished MTW for the first time. It was a nice book. The situation with Rose at the end was sad and undexpected for me. I thought Clogg was very funny. Also you should lookup what 'clogg' means. It has multiple meanings which all are linked with his behaviour :).
Anyway, one thing I dont get in this book. Its the map. Why are the hills in the south called "the northhills" and the cliffs in the north "the southcliffs"? This confused me during reading and also frustrated me a bit. Maybe someone has an explaining, or is it a mistake?
Kind Greetings,
Redtooth, first captain.
Quote from: redtooth on May 26, 2018, 03:41:51 PM
Today I finished MTW for the first time. It was a nice book. The situation with Rose at the end was sad and undexpected for me. I thought Clogg was very funny. Also you should lookup what 'clogg' means. It has multiple meanings which all are linked with his behaviour :).
Anyway, one thing I dont get in this book. Its the map. Why are the hills in the south called "the northhills" and the cliffs in the north "the southcliffs"? This confused me during reading and also frustrated me a bit. Maybe someone has an explaining, or is it a mistake?
Kind Greetings,
Redtooth, first captain.
The thing is I read Mossflower before Martin the Warrior so I knew something was going to happen
Quote from: Ashleg on January 09, 2017, 08:44:16 PM
Quote from: alexandre on October 04, 2016, 02:17:19 PM
But Clogg was FUNNY. In Redwall, the comic relief is often the secondary villain, how was he annoying?
How he was not annoying is past me, as the things I deem annoying were probably the ones you said were funny.
Aww too bad. I loved Clogg.
Welcome to the second book in our series readalong event: Martin the Warrior! Seeing as this is one of my favorites, I can't wait to start discussing!
As usual, here are a couple things to note before you start discussing:
- Please keep your posts here and in the entirety of the General Discussion board on-topic and constructive. When discussing topics like favorites, it always helps to give reasoning as to why you chose your favorite character, scene, etc. When in doubt, add more! It is always fun to see what other people think and respectfully debate with them.
- If you would like to participate but don't own the book, there are a few resources that may be of use to you. Libby, Audible, and (of course) your local library, are all good ways to rent books/audiobooks for free (Audible is free only for the first 30-day trial). There is no harm in permanently expanding your Redwall collection though if you can afford it!
- If you want even more Redwall discussion, please check out the Recorder on the Wall (http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=10104.0) podcast episodes for the book! Every three weeks I will be posting the relevant episodes, so please check them out. Here are the episodes for Parts 1 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2011.mp3), 2 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2012.mp3), and 3 (http://frustratedpodcast.jellycast.com/files/audio/Recorder%20Episode%2013.mp3) of Martin the Warrior!
- Additionally, this book was also adapted into a TV show! Season 3 of the Redwall TV Series covers the adventures of Martin and Rose and can be found on Amazon and iTunes.
Finally, here are a few guiding questions for discussion if you are unsure what to talk about:
- Who is your favorite character, and why do you regard them as your favorite?
- Who was your least favorite character, and why did they bother you?
- What was your favorite scene? What stuck out to you about it?
- What are your thoughts on the book as a whole? Where does it rank against other Redwall books and why?
- Do you have any theories or small details others may not have picked up on when reading?
- And anything else you want to mention!
Have fun, and happy discussing!
Alright, with that many places to get the book, I have no excuses ;D
This book is flat out awesome. The ending tugs on your heartstrings and I remember it was the very first time I was reading a book and almost cried. At the time I thought it was just because the story was sad, which it can be for some, but much much later I saw it as a sign that BJ had made a set of characters so well-written that when things happened to them I felt it too. Redwall was the series that made me a reader, and this was one of the books that made me suddenly realize that writing can evoke emotion.
May I say that I think the rivalry between Tramun Clogg and Badrang the Tyrant is one of the best in the whole series, save for maybe Pitru and Riggu Felis (in my humble opinion, though that separate book holds a special place in my heart anyway). I've always loved the kind of villains who very clearly are scheming against one another but still put up with each other and talk like -- what's the word... professionals? Clogg's arc as a whole is particularly well-written and clever, I think.
So... I tried to read the book but got busy after reading the first third of it. I still want to share my (very few) thoughts on what I DID read though. ;) I am unsure if I've ever read this one before but I definitely watched the animated TV season for it so I DO know what happens... for the most part because I have forgotten some things. The dialogue is quite unique for each character and I kept reading it all in my messed up memory of what the show sounds like. Brome and Felldoh are definitely my favorite characters and are cool in their own special ways. I am saddest that I didn't get around to finishing the book because I really was looking forward to reading the part where the Rosehip Players perform at Marshank... I'll probably finish reading the book at some point next year. :)
OH and I really like the scenes where those still in Marshank are preparing for when Martin returns (minus the spy but whatever the rest of the people... er animals... are cool XD).
So, I'm catching up in the Redwall Readalong, and I just finished Martin the Warrior this morning. It's always been one of my favorite books because it is so unique. As a prequel, it has an interesting flavor which isn't found in most of other Redwall books- namely, that there is no happy ending. Yes, Badrang is defeated in the grand finale, but Martin himself has lost everything that was dearest to him. It is a tale of sacrifice- What Martin gave up in order to free his friends and honor his code, and what would eventually lead to the founding of the Abbey (where Rose finally completed her promise, and helped him become as peaceable a mouse as any in Noonvale). The character of Felldoh is another facet of this tale of sacrifice. Felldoh sacrificed the way of peace for the way of the warrior in order to protect others- he told Brome that he wished he could be innocent again, but that so long as Marshank remained to enslave others he would plunge himself into violence and hate to protect others, so that they would be able to remain innocent and free. And, finally, he gave his life for it. It reminds me a little bit of Frodo after the Scouring of the Shire- "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."
Also Cap'n Clogg is the absolute bestest and no one will ever convince me otherwise!
Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on November 03, 2020, 09:00:09 PM
So, I'm catching up in the Redwall Readalong, and I just finished Martin the Warrior this morning. It's always been one of my favorite books because it is so unique. As a prequel, it has an interesting flavor which isn't found in most of other Redwall books- namely, that there is no happy ending. Yes, Badrang is defeated in the grand finale, but Martin himself has lost everything that was dearest to him. It is a tale of sacrifice- What Martin gave up in order to free his friends and honor his code, and what would eventually lead to the founding of the Abbey (where Rose finally completed her promise, and helped him become as peaceable a mouse as any in Noonvale). The character of Felldoh is another facet of this tale of sacrifice. Felldoh sacrificed the way of peace for the way of the warrior in order to protect others- he told Brome that he wished he could be innocent again, but that so long as Marshank remained to enslave others he would plunge himself into violence and hate to protect others, so that they would be able to remain innocent and free. And, finally, he gave his life for it. It reminds me a little bit of Frodo after the Scouring of the Shire- "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them."
Also Cap'n Clogg is the absolute bestest and no one will ever convince me otherwise!
I would have to say otherwise. Felldoh wasn't another facet, he was Martin's foil. While Martin was able to walk away from vengeance, Felldoh basked in it, leading to his death. He
could have killed Badrang, but he chose the attainment of revenge rather than the dispensation of justice. In the end, Felldoh's goal wasn't 'be a warrior and free all the slaves' - that is Martin's. Felldoh's was 'be a warrior and make Badrang pay for what he had done to him and the ones he love', which is significantly less noble.
You
were right about Clogg though.