Star Wars discussion

[Hickory]

Response

Well, there's quite a few points presented that nullify the idea that hyperspace ramming is the be all, end all tactic of space battles:

1. Hyperdrives don't come cheap, and using them on a bunch of kamikaze ships each battle would be quite detrimental
2. The Raddus only found such success from being such a large ship
3. It was also extremely lucky that the debris field existed, because that was what took out most of the Resurgents behind the Supremacy
4. In a tactical sense, it would need a very specific situation to function safely. If it was employed at, say, the Battle of Coruscant, then the close-quarters fighting would almost certainly mean that friendly fire from a hyperspace ram would exist.

Now, since you argued that the CIS would totally use that tactic (and I agree, it fits their "expendability" vibe very well), I would still disagree.

Yes, the CIS had the money to purchase hyperdrives, as well as a very large amount of ships like the Raddus (as well as the money to build them in bulk), but my latter two points still stand – we know very well that droids are not the most flexible of tactical thinkers, and the concept that they would willingly throw ships at the Republic is quite ridiculous. I mean, it's still a perfectly good ship, and why sacrifice ships when you can just overwhelm the Republic with the sheer number of vessels you have? We've seen before that standard ship-to-ship combat in the Clone Wars is pretty darn effective, and if you can do the job without wasting a cruiser, then of course you should do it that way.

Oh, and, as a note, hyperspace ramming is really only effective at close range, since the "jump" itself literally propels you into a completely different dimension.

Since I know that I tend to ramble and can't articulate my thoughts particularly clearly, here's the video that I took a lot from:

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[Jukka the Sling]

Good points.  But I still think that someone could probably attach a basic hyperdrive to, like, an asteroid or something, or even just the shell of a ship with nothing inside, and weaponize that.  Sigh.  I'd love to get a canon explanation that puts some limits on this crazy superpower.

[Jukka the Sling]

Sooo... Star Wars Celebration is being held in Chicago next April, which is closer to me than last year's one, at least (no way was I ever going to be able to go to Orlando).  I really wanna go, but I've never been to any sort of con before, and I'd have to pay for it all myself.  Guess I should really hurry up this job search.

[Jukka the Sling]

Sooo... who's going to see Solo in theaters, and who's gonna skip it and wait for the DVD?

I'm pretty torn about whether to support it with my dollars, since the reviews are really mixed and I might just leave feeling even more disappointed than I did after TLJ.  Plus, Jon Kasdan made some ridiculous comments about Lando's sexuality that really irked the canon purist in me.

[Jetthebinturong]

Ugh

Exactly one reference to Lando Calrissian's sexuality has been made in the entirety of Star Wars canon, and that's that he flirted with Princess Leia. This in no way precludes the possibility of pansexuality which is "attraction regardless of gender."

Please don't make it out like adherence to canon is your reason for objecting to his statement, this is exactly what my Hearth thread was about.

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Anyway Solo looks pretty good so I'm torn. I promised myself I wouldn't support another Disney Star Wars movie after being so let down by TLJ, and I definitely won't be seeing episode IX. I might see Solo. Won't be opening week though.

[Jukka the Sling]

Spoiler

Actually, Lando flirted with Hera and possibly Sabine in Rebels, had an intimate relationship with an Imperial officer woman in a comic (although he had some ulterior motives in that case), and in the recent canon novel Last Shot, he has a serious girlfriend in the form of a Twi'lek woman, and he's considering settling down with her.  He's always been portrayed as a womanizing straight man.  Now Jon Kasdan claims he's attracted to anything and everything, including non-humanoid droids?!  It's just an absurd retcon.

I also don't like the fact that so many people are justifying this by pointing to all the alien/human relationships in Star Wars and saying, "See, we already have pansexuality anyway, so why is this thing about Lando any different?"  It's a blatant falsehood that attraction to an alien of the opposite sex makes a Star Wars character pansexual. It's far more akin to the interracial relationships we have in real life.  A SW character would only be pansexual if they were indiscriminately interested in everyone regardless of their sex.

Yeah, I've given this a ton of thought over the past few days. xD

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[Jetthebinturong]

Spoiler

Your lack of comprehension of the nature of pansexuality is astounding. Well no it isn't. But it's amusing that you state things about topics you clearly don't understand as if they were facts.

Pansexuality is not "indiscriminate attraction to everything," it's an attraction to personality, regardless of gender. Pansexuals are obviously attracted to physical characteristics, and have types much like most other people, but the deciding factor in whether they find someone attractive or not is who they are as a person. So attraction to a droid could make sense theoretically.

Also Lando being possibly attracted to Sabine is messed up. She's sixteen and he's like mid-twenties.

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[The Skarzs]

-_-

[Jukka the Sling]

Spoiler

The dictionary definition of 'pansexual' states: "not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity".  So, basically, someone's sex is never a barrier for a pansexual.  What I said obviously works within that definition.  And Jon Kasdan certainly made it sound like Lando didn't really care who he got involved with!  Thus, I used the word "indiscriminate" .

Honestly, I'm quite squicked out that it's suggested Lando wants a relationship with L3-37.  ._. 

And yeah, all I know is that Lando was talkin' smooth to Sabine (maybe that's just his default tone, though) and Ezra seemed jealous.

The writers should just make new LGBT characters instead of claiming that a character who has never been shown to be anything but a straight playboy is pan.  I've read so many reactions from people, including quite a few LGBT people, who aren't at all pleased with this blatant pandering.

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[Grond]

Spoiler

Actually, Lando flirted with Hera and possibly Sabine in Rebels, had an intimate relationship with an Imperial officer woman in a comic (although he had some ulterior motives in that case), and in the recent canon novel Last Shot, he has a serious girlfriend in the form of a Twi'lek woman, and he's considering settling down with her.  He's always been portrayed as a womanizing straight man.  Now Jon Kasdan claims he's attracted to anything and everything, including non-humanoid droids?!  It's just an absurd retcon.

I also don't like the fact that so many people are justifying this by pointing to all the alien/human relationships in Star Wars and saying, "See, we already have pansexuality anyway, so why is this thing about Lando any different?"  It's a blatant falsehood that attraction to an alien of the opposite sex makes a Star Wars character pansexual. It's far more akin to the interracial relationships we have in real life.  A SW character would only be pansexual if they were indiscriminately interested in everyone regardless of their sex.

Yeah, I've given this a ton of thought over the past few days. xD

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Umm I wouldn't say that relationships between alien species in star wars would be akin to interracial ones as these are members of different species not of "sub-species" or "races". So the relationships between different aliens or aliens and humans are more akin to having a relationship between a human and a non-human animal (interspeciel). Which is why I always found this aspect of star wars "weird".

The fact though that Twileaks and humans can successfully mate indicates they are very closely related and maybe even the same species if the offspring are fertile. But you also see in star wars that Hutts are attracted to human and"human like" women and its pretty clear the 2 can't reproduce. So this later case clearly illustrates the "weirdness" discussed above.

Redwall kind of handled this better where you see mice with mice, and badgers with badgers. Relationships between members of different species are friendships only or strictly "platonic". We never see a case directly where members of different species are romantically evolved. Although given the existence of the wearets and especially wearat (weasel and rat hybrid) in Redwall it must have happened...

Also in regards to Lando- I would agree with your characterization of him as a playboy or womanizer. In the canon he is arguably portrayed as a "hypersexual" character and that his primary motive seems to be to get, for lack of a better word, laid. Going by this personality trait I would find it strange that Lando would suddenly, especially when he was younger,  be pansexual and most attracted to personality. However, him being attracted to anything (droid, male, female, human/alien) etc... could make sense and fit with older straight canon Lando. Especially if he was like this when he was young and then as he became older in order to "maintain his image" or something along that line he started to gravitate exclusively towards females.

[Jetthebinturong]

Spoiler

The writers should just make new LGBT characters instead of claiming that a character who has never been shown to be anything but a straight playboy is pan.

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Now that I agree with.

[Jukka the Sling]

@Grond  You have some interesting points there.  Yeah, the idea of humans being in relationships with some of the more outlandish aliens is kinda weird, and I'd probably consider a human that wanted a relationship with an ugly non-humanoid to be pansexual (it's all pretty arbitrary, though, because just how weird-looking does the alien have to be before it counts as being pan? XD)  It's just that Lando has never exhibited any actual signs of being pan, and this whole thing seems like a desperate grab for brownie points.

Now that I agree with.

Finally, something we can both agree on!  I knew this day would come! XD

Yeah, that was the main point I was trying to argue here: that you can't just rewrite canon characters to score points with some particular group.  It's almost like Jon Kasdan hasn't really seen Rebels or something...



ANYWAY.

Did you guys know that a couple of goofy Legends characters are going to be canonized in this film?  Their names are Tag and Bink, and they appeared in some parodyish comics that were never even canon within Legends.  Jon Kasdan is actually gonna play one of the two.

[The Skarzs]

Considering the other things the new faces of Star Wars have done. . . Rey being able to defeat Kylo, commanding the force powerfully, and fighting off Snoke's guards who are supposed to be trained killers, the best of the best, ALL WITHOUT ANY TEACHING OR TRAINING.

Mary Sue, much?

Luke, who was supposed to be the most powerful Jedi ever, had to be trained. His first fight with a lightsaber was disastrous. He tried, and failed, and tried, and failed, and learned, and grew, and was still imperfect after training under Yoda.

I don't mind strong female characters, but it seems like it's okay to make Rey like this just because she's female.
Thoughts?

[Jukka the Sling]

Yeah, those things irk me about Rey too.  I like her much more in the first movie - she seems way more interesting, personality-wise, as well as less overpowered.  I don't know why, but she seems kind of bland in TLJ.  Actually, most of TLJ is dull and bland.  (I kind of want to watch it again, but I'll probably be mentally screaming the whole time at Holdo because I hate her storyline so much.  And the Canto Bight sequence.)

There was something said in TLJ by Snoke or Kylo that suggested Snoke had known for a while that Kylo's equal in the Force would arise.  Like the Force chose Rey to take on Kylo, which is why she's so powerful with zero training.  It's kind of a cop-out.

[The Skarzs]

It's a plot hole is what it is. Or plot armor.
Frankly, most of the new characters are pretty bland.

They also removed decades of expanded universe material and made it "legends", completely ignoring the fans' desires, made the hyperspace ram a thing. . . They could have used the old characters to much greater effect instead of removing them. People wanted those old heroes back, instead of new ones who are kind of developed before the story even started.