I've had an idea for years and I thought I should let yall know. I do belive that Vitch is the son of Cluny the Scourge. I don't care what you guys think but thats my thoughts.
Maybe, It never says but that is an idea I never thought of......But it make me think.
I saw somthing that said that Cluny had a son and Vitch would have been cause he is old enough.
Really, where did you see that.
It was some Redwall site I can't remember.
Ok cool.
ya well my idea is gonna be important to you RPers in the Hero of Redwall.. OOPS! I shouldn't have said that...
Thank you for the info.
dang it!
It's okay, I don't see how. Now back to the topic!
I, for one don't see Cluny marrying, or having a mate.
I dunno. I mean theres gotta be some perks being Warlord.
does the site say when?
Like it said that his son was about Sam's age in the first book.
I want a quote from Mattimeo or Redwall, not something from an anonymous Redwall site. There are lots of Redwall fan sites, and I wouldn't take anything most of them said for granted.
Or I can just save you the trouble and assure you that there's nothing about any of Cluny's relations in either book, let alone a mate or a son.
Took the words right out of my mouth, Bragoon. If it's not mentioned in the books (which it wasn't) then it's not canon.
Like I said on my first post I don't care if two Redwall fans disagree. I just want your ideas on Vitch's past.
then i don't think it was vitch, i feel as though vitch was an adult, and was just unusually small, i'm going to look it up.
Ok then. I think that Vitch was a kid.
I wasn't disagreeing, I was stating a fact. Any idea of Vitch being Cluny's son is pure fan speculation because there is nothing in the books to back it up. I just meant that you shouldn't state it as fact even if it said so on some random site.
Well all opinions are different.
It's not an opinion... I give up.
Ok whatever. I also read something on a different site that said that the reason Cluny was so demented was because his wife died.
Maybe more people would believe you if you said the names of these sites.
Anyway, Flandor's right. Vitch isn't Cluny's son because there is nothing in the books that says so. People can write fanfictions about it and stuff, but fanfiction is about what might have happened.
Ok then. Thanks Tiria that was the same thing they said but you made it sound not as.. uh.. offensive. But I belive that Vitch is Cluny's son. I just wanted your guy's input on this. Mods you can close this now. *sigh*
I don't think they were offensive.
Well I put a lot of my free time in that research.
Well, we all have opinions. Sorry that you researched all of that for nothing.
*sigh* its ok..
I think it's great that people get involved and spend a lot of time researching things they like. But it's important to be mindful of the information you're taking in, and to compare facts with multiple places. It's also good to remember that the best place to look for that sort of information is the books themselves, and since we have that valuable resource available to us, we should make use of it and check our fact against the book first.
For instance, let's say someone says "Nimbalo the Slayer became a snowpea farmer in the Northern Mountains after Deyna settled down in Redwall."
Then someone else says "Hey that's cool, I think I'll spread this around a bit." Let's face it, as cool as that may be, it's not very likely that Nimbalo moved to the Northern Mountains to grow snowpeas, and the book says nothing about it. It can be easy to not word something very well and accidentally (or intentionally) start convincing people of things that aren't true, so we should always check our facts against trusted resources.
I get that but if Brian never said that it didn't happen or it did happen it happens in my mind.
Quote from: Tiria Wildlough on July 13, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
Maybe more people would believe you if you said the names of these sites.
Anyway, Flandor's right. Vitch isn't Cluny's son because there is nothing in the books that says so. People can write fanfictions about it and stuff, but fanfiction is about what might have happened.
Ahhh, but there is nothing that said he ISN'T... I personally doubt it... But it IS still on the table.
Quote from: AbbotAlf0805 on July 13, 2012, 03:20:14 AM
I get that but if Brian never said that it didn't happen or it did happen it happens in my mind.
HAHAHA! That is soooo my take on Roses' apparent, "Death," as everyone else fills in the blank... I'm optimistic on this point and fill n the blank with life.
I agree with Dann (thank the seasons we agree on somthing!) if Brian never said anything about it then it's up to the fans.
Not really, Brian never said cluny the scourge wasn't the son of superman. Does that mean i can claim he is? And I certainly doubt he would like to portray his character like that. Also you can't say its "up to the fans" because it certainly isn't, he wrote the books not us :)
Sorry if that's offensive to you, that's just my take :)
I'm still with dann on the rose thing if he's with me.
You cant just fill in the blanks like that, Brian obviously never meant for them to be filled in by fans. While yes, these things are possible they are laughably improbable.
Sorry if that was mean! I just strongly disagree.
Jaques was all about imagination. The home page on this very site says that we can go anywhere in our imagination (quote from Jaques himself). I'll bet he would like us to fill in the blanks. The books were the basework of the story, you have to finish it yourself.
P.S. Abbot. I will NEVER beleive that Rose died... Never.
Seconded...
I think that it would be interesting if Cluny had married somebeast that wasn't a rat so that Vitch could be a hybrid. Maybe a wildcat? That would be interesting.
Please don't post on this unless you want to build off this idea. Not destroy it.
I think that he married a mouse. (Fans beat me to death) That would explain Vitch's size.
Hmm, interesting. A mat? Rouse? Lol! Vitch should have a very troubled background, I mean, just think about it! He had a maniac father, and I don't know, I think I would be troubled if my dad just started killing helpless people.
Well I read somthing that said the thing that made Cluny snap was his wife dieing.
I can understand that. So, Vitch could have a very troubled background. No mother, crazy father. I could easily see Vitch snapping because of that, too. What would be an interesting twist is like, if he's supposed to be the bad guy, you could have him turn good because of the mouse blood in him. His mother could have been good, and who knows? Cluny could have been good before his mate died.
I thought that too. Plus I saw several pics of a so called, "Son of the Scourge" but that probaly has nothing to do with this.
MODIFIED
Holy bad stuff! Rainshadow PM me!!!!!!
Ummm... for what reason? And why are you freaking out lol?
Ok, I can buy Vitch being Cluny's son (maybe). It's not canon and wasn't ever mentioned in the books, but it's a little plausible. Frankly if it was true, I think it would've been mentioned.
But I gotta put my foot down at the hybrid idea. Mice can't mate with rats, end of story. The only instance of a hybrid in Redwall is the Wearet, and both of them were deformed monsters.
Agreed, saying vitch is clunies son is iffy at best but hybrid?? Really??
ok you guys don't post here unless you will build off this topic!
I like the idea that Vitch would be a hybrid. It's different. It doesn't need to be exactly like anything in the book! It's just fiction! Alf isn't Jacques!!! I think it would be a very good idea that Vitch would be a hybrid.
I agree.
Except even in real life I've never heard of rat/mouse hybrid.
dude stay out if your not building on this
You can't open a debatable topic without expecting some negative input. You can't just censor the forum! :P
ya your right.. just why do you waist your time posting here? You trying to be mean or what?
No I never try to be mean :-\ I just enjoy debating this kind of thing.
well your kinda tickin me off.
I'm sorry :-[ maybe I'm short sighted. But I find it hard to believe vitch Is a hybrid when I don't know if rat/mouse hybrids really exist
Read the quote on the home page dude.
What quote?
the one on the page when you enter the site.
Ok ok I get the point :P you're right :P
thank the lord!
Commandment #3 has just been broken :P
ok sorry!
Guys, guys, let's be nice, OK? I'm not trying to be a moderator, but I don't like to see people fighting over something that's actually NOT THAT IMPORTANT.
Anyway, I don't think Vitch is a rat/mouse hybrid. That's just not possible.
It's possible just not likly
Quote from: Tiria Wildlough on July 15, 2012, 11:53:33 AM
Guys, guys, let's be nice, OK? I'm not trying to be a moderator, but I don't like to see people fighting over something that's actually NOT THAT IMPORTANT.
Anyway, I don't think Vitch is a rat/mouse hybrid. That's just not possible.
Don't start the hybrid thing over again please lol
But there is still a chance of that.
Is it possible for a rat and mouse to mate in real life?
Well it IS Redwall. I mean, Wearat and Wearet. Hybrids are possible.
Don't forget the Ferrout! :D
What was that?
Bragoon dressed up as one, it was a joke.
The Wearers were deformed monstrosities. You can't mate two species of animal. It results in stillborn, infertile, deformed offspring, or none at all. They've accomplished it with a few rare combinations (mules for example) but in general it's simply not viable. A rat and a mouse are actually not closely related. They look similar but they're not even in the same genus.
ok (ouch). but i mean him having a rat father could explain his rat looks and his mouse mother could explain his height.
Quote from: AbbotAlf0805 on July 15, 2012, 09:15:44 PM
ok (ouch). but i mean him having a rat father could explain his rat looks and his mouse mother could explain his height.
If if were possible for them to mate, yes, but it's not.
Why? Brian loves imagination.
So it's impossible but we r imagining that it is?
I am.
Ok
I don't think rats and mice could mate. But if they did, and that was Vitch's backstory, it'd be a pretty dark fanfiction. I wouldn't read it.
me neither. I dislike Vitch
Looks like all the mods were on vacation at once. :p (I think we actually were!)
Anyway, Alf, there's no considerable proof of this, and I just looked through all six pages of this, and saw nothing linked to. Did you come up with this theory on your own, or did someone write it down somewhere? In all honesty, I don't think this is true. Cluny is not stated to have a wife in the books, therefore with no mate, he has no son. It sounds like whatever you read, wherever you read it, its an interesting piece of fanfiction and nothing more. ;) I'm in the camp that says Vitch is not Cluny's son because the evidence doesn't point it as a possibility.
That's about where I am :P but I admit it would be pretty sick if he was
Ok I'll leave the forum if y'all want me to.
Why would we want you to do that?
Well o just wanted to talk about a cool idea and everyone is against it. Lots of people on this site don't like me..
Every idea has some negative outlook :( and you can't make everyone happy, some people are bound not to like you, the majority of people at my school hate me and make fun of me so I have gotten used to it. Sorry if I'm ever mean, it's hard not to when everyone around you (mostly) is
Ok
Quote from: AbbotAlf0805 on July 16, 2012, 07:39:35 PM
Ok I'll leave the forum if y'all want me to.
How do you get from me disagreeing with you, to me not liking you? ??? Disagreeing does not mean dislike. You don't have to agree with me or anyone else to stay or leave. While you had an interesting idea, I think its good of everyone here to point out why that perhaps that wasn't going to work out. They aren't being mean.
ok i just am a little sensitive because i don't have alot of friends.
Don't worry matey! I don't either :)
I just thought yall would like this idea. Seeing that you guys don't I would knidly ask a mod to close this.