Do you think BJ should have put humans in Redwall?

[Tiria Wildlough]

I did wonder about the horse and cart. I don't remember anything about strange creatures who farmed, though. 

[Redwall Musician]

I don't think it would work and i wouldn't want it.  i don't know how it wouldn't work, but i think it doesn't and i simply can't imagine redwall with humans in it.  Maybe it can be like Guardians of Ga'Hoole where humans have left remnants and have died out or moved somewhere else, but for there to be any direct interaction between human and creature...would be...well i wouldn't like it.

Here is how it can't work:
1: The humans would either be giants or the same size of the animals (which is weird and wrong).

2: If the humans were giants they would probably destroy Redwall.

3: And humans are not one side or the other. They can be bad, they can be good. And this would be very confusing.

4: Mossflower can not have humans because it is not to be. It is a fictional land of mice, rats, and other woodland creatures.


That probably makes no sense, but it is my reasons.

[sabretache5611]

I don't think it would work and i wouldn't want it.  i don't know how it wouldn't work, but i think it doesn't and i simply can't imagine redwall with humans in it.  Maybe it can be like Guardians of Ga'Hoole where humans have left remnants and have died out or moved somewhere else, but for there to be any direct interaction between human and creature...would be...well i wouldn't like it.

Here is how it can't work:
1: The humans would either be giants or the same size of the animals (which is weird and wrong).

2: If the humans were giants they would probably destroy Redwall.

3: And humans are not one side or the other. They can be bad, they can be good. And this would be very confusing.

4: Mossflower can not have humans because it is not to be. It is a fictional land of mice, rats, and other woodland creatures.


That probably makes no sense, but it is my reasons.

actually it makes total sense. or most of it does

[Log-a-Log]

Definitely no humans!

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

My question is, what if they had chickens in the Redwall series?

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Chickens were mentioned in Redwall.


Overall: Redwall is a series about animals, how is this a question?

[Galedeep]

Chickens were mentioned in Redwall.


Overall: Redwall is a series about animals, how is this a question?

What? When where chickens mentioned in Redwall?

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

The infamous acts of Cluny the Scourge, read by Methuselah towards the beginning of the novel.

[Galedeep]

I'm looking at that particular page right now and I see piglets, cows, and a town dog. But no chickens.

[James Gryphon]

Well, we have several options as far as putting humans in a Redwall story.

1) Place them directly in the story as characters, interacting with other characters.
This is the most obvious possibility, but it's also the worst for reasons of feel and scale. Humans talking to mice isn't really Redwall, and realistically, they would be massive giants, far eclipsing Redwall in size... even Salamandastron would be just a hill to them. We could scale them down, but that makes no sense, and besides, I don't really see why anyone would want to see humans interacting directly with mice, rats, and badgers anyway; there's no good reason to do it.

2) Place them directly in the story, as a "force of nature".
Humans talking to Redwallers, eating at the feasts, etc. clearly has problems. A more reasonable alternative is to include them, but only as "monsters", or invincible obstacles in the heroes' quests. Something to be avoided, not confronted. In this sort of story, the focus might be on avoiding the humans or resolving the threat to Redwall/the animal community at large as they go about their daily business; razing trees, imprisoning and killing beasts, and generally making a grand nuisance of themselves.

3) Place them indirectly in the story.
It's never directly stated in Redwall that humans don't exist, and from the horse-driven cart, reference to "towns" elsewhere, and some different animals (such as the dog), the Redwall world very clearly appears to be a world where humans could exist -- even though they probably don't. In this kind of a story, the characters would deal either with what the humans created, or with their pets, never with the humans themselves -- like a more distant, non-malevolent version of 2).

4) No humans in Redwall.
What everyone is used to. The Redwall lore (aside from Redwall itself) doesn't outright state that humans don't exist, but they don't leave much room for them to exist either. I believe the closest the series ever comes to acknowledging the possibility of humans is in High Rhulain, where Riggu Felis mentions that his ancestors rescued the feral cats from some "masters", somewhere. Nevertheless, this isn't exactly a solid indication of humans existing, and even if they did, it would have had to be at some point in the distant past -- in other words, a time that isn't now.

I think options 2 and 3 could be intriguing elements in a fanfiction story -- either one that directly deals with humans, or one that seeks to recapture the "feel" of the earliest Redwall stories. I don't see any *good* reasons to do #1, and #4 is what everyone is used to as it is.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

I'm looking at that particular page right now and I see piglets, cows, and a town dog. But no chickens.

Yeah, I realzied their abasense right after I posted. Sprry ofr the confuson.
And mad typos, my computer is in a straneg astate.

[Osu]

I recall thinking humans were mentioned somewhere in High Rhulain. Felis says something like "your kind came from across the seas where they served strange masters" or... something to that effect. It always made me think, Oh! House cats!

James: you always have the most detailed posts.

[Tiria Wildlough]

Yes! I remember that bit in High Rhulain. The feral cats depended on their strange masters. Subtle.  :oI never realized that until now.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Really? Can I get a reference to that?

[Osu]

Sure, here it is:

A gurgling laugh issued from behind the chain mail as Riggu addressed Kaltag. "That one's got the makings of a proper wildcat!"
She sniffed. "We have two sons, both wildcats."
Pulling the face mask to one side, the warlord thrust his hideous features close to her. "Never! I'm the only true wildcat here--I, Riggu Felis! You and all the rest of these cats, you are only feral cats. Your ancestors were tame creatures who served stronger beasts. You could not even fend for yourselves. It took my kin, the real wildcats, to conquer your masters. We brought your kind here from the sunset lands of the far oceans. See my colour, my stripes, these are the marks of the proper wildcat bloodline. I am the only one who is all wildcat, a warlord born. Jeefra is more like you, but Pitru has more wildcat in him!"

High Rhulain, chapter six.