I have one question about the whole Redwall series. What happened to Martin's shield and armor? After the time of Matthias, the both seemed to have vanished. Did I miss something about this? I always question this. I personally think Matthias re-hid them. Anyone has some thoughts about this?
I've puzzled over that too, but I'm not sure.
@martins#1fan: Slow down on the posting for a bit! This isn't a game to get your name on the end of every topic in the forum. :) Quality over quantity.
I think they are probably used by all the characters who use Martin's sword, but they aren''t mentioned.
@ladyshale I can do what I want to do, It's a free country!
Quote from: Mariel on June 16, 2011, 11:26:05 PM
I think they are probably used by all the characters who use Martin's sword, but they aren''t mentioned.
Really? do you think so?
I'm not sure about that Mariel. Like in Rackety Tam, Tam used Martin's sword but his own shield. But you never know...
Quote from: martins#1fan on June 17, 2011, 03:35:01 PM
@ladyshale I can do what I want to do, It's a free country!
The internet isn't a country, but fine, do what you want.
Quote from: Redwall Musician on June 16, 2011, 08:51:31 PM
I have one question about the whole Redwall series. What happened to Martin's shield and armor? After the time of Matthias, the both seemed to have vanished. Did I miss something about this? I always question this. I personally think Matthias re-hid them. Anyone has some thoughts about this?
I never really gave it much thought. In the TV show, Cornflower and Silent Sam found the armor in attic somewhere, but the books don't really specify where Matthias's armor came from. Maybe the shrews lent it to him, or Captain Snow gave it as a parting gift. Wherever it came from though, we never hear about it again.
...
Oh great, now I can't stop thinking about it. >< :D
I think that it makes sense that Matthias would re-hide them. I certainly can't think of anything else.
Or maybe they were just kept for those who needed them.
They might have been destroyed or rusted away or something like that... they weren't made special like the sword was, so...
I don't think it would rust away. If it were to rust, why didn't it before Matthias found it?
Quote from: Osu on July 04, 2011, 04:15:57 PM
They might have been destroyed or rusted away or something like that... they weren't made special like the sword was, so...
look im purely speculating, but it seems that jacques eventually took the redwall series away from it being centred on weapons + armour of martin, and more focused on spirit and legacy of martin. At Pearls of Lutra, only sword mentioned and stories were quite focused on abbey warriors (Look at Triss, rakkety tam, loamhedge, taggerung, Marlfox. the long patrol is an exception as Arven got only minor role) until High Rhulain in which the focus on the abbey warrior and martin's sword immediately diminished. In doomwyte, eulalia and Sable Quean, martin's sword is mentioned, but not really focused on an abbey warrior wielding martin's sword, (Laird Bowlaynee is given the sword, but the plot focus isn't really on him). In the time prior to Matthias and after Mossflower, only the sword was mentioned, these books were published after Mattimeo. The books in this period also had great focus on martin's sword, (Mariel, Salamandastrom).
Basically all the books that mention martin's sword, shield and armour were published early on, but later the focus on the shield and armour disappeared and by high rhulain, the focus on Martin's sword had waned. Its as if Jacques decided in the later books that the sword wasn't so important as Martin's legacy and spirit, which never did disappear. (or at least in all the books i've read, which excludes only The Rogue Crew)
am i making any sense???
You're making perfect sense and I agree. While I was reading Sable Quean I actually wondered about that - it seemed like the sword played hardly any part at all. Same for the Rogue Crew. I was a little disappointed because it seems like such an important part of the series.
Yeah, that makes sense. I do miss the sword though...
Quote from: Osu on July 07, 2011, 03:52:22 PM
You're making perfect sense and I agree. While I was reading Sable Quean I actually wondered about that - it seemed like the sword played hardly any part at all. Same for the Rogue Crew. I was a little disappointed because it seems like such an important part of the series.
yes, the sword was VERY important in the early days. however, have you noticed the books with the sword as a focus are...well they end up having plot elements that often parallel. For an example in Marlfox, Mattimeo, Mariel, the heroes including the Abbey warrior are always following a list of clues to chase down the vermin. Also, I would say the sword is not as important as Martin's guardian spirit.
The internet isn't a country, but fine, do what you want.
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I'm sorry i love this comment and in the stories i wright i use martens shield and armor so there you go they were hidden in a brook and an otter found them
I think Matthias probably hid them
Or he gave them to the hermit voles mentioned in the topic The Sparra. (http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=282.msg10473#msg10473)
I like hermit voles.
Okay, his sword appears numerous times throughought the series, whereas the shield only appears once. I think he hid the shield, and then the sword was passed on thorugh the generations. Does that make sense?
Didn't Cornflower use Martin's armor to scare away the crows in "Mattimeo"? I think the armor was just placed in a chest in the gate-house.
Yeah, Constance was trapped in the gatehouse when she was putting the armor away
Quote from: Redwall Musician on June 17, 2011, 03:38:21 PM
I'm not sure about that Mariel. Like in Rackety Tam, Tam used Martin's sword but his own shield. But you never know...
maybe tam liked his own sheild
Well, it makes sense for Matthias, who is a mouse like Martin, to use every part of the original warrior's equipment if possible; after all, they're about the same size, have similar physical characteristics, and Martin is Matthias' hero. I assume that both Mattimeo and Martin II also had access to Martin's armor if need be.
However, Rakkety Tam and a lot of the other heroes that've used Martin's sword are larger than Martin was, physically, and so using Martin's shield along with his sword wouldn't be the most effective way to protect themselves. Besides, as it, unlike the sword, is not invulnerable, there's no special reason to use it if they already have good equipment.
*Musician raises her hand*
Which brings up another question. Martin never used a shield or armor. Not in Martin the Warrior, Legend of Luke, or Mossflower. Where did this shield which was claimed to be Martin's really come from?
Actually, the original Martin DID wear armor, in Mossflower. Reread the parts of the book that come after when he visits Boar, and you'll see. The shield could have been made later.
Was working on this before Nightfire posted. It's a little longer, so I'll put it up anyway.
Well, in
Martin the Warrior, Martin was an escaped slave, so it's probable that he would not have much in the way of equipment; in
Legend of Luke, he was traveling, and taking along armor would have slowed him down (just like how Matthias also leaves the armor behind when he goes on the quest in
Mattimeo).
The only time Martin is referenced as using his armor is in
Mossflower, and that is mentioned several times:
Quote from: Excerpt from MossflowerTimballisto had found his (Martin)'s old battle armor in the sea rat lockers. He came forward and buckled it on his friend in silence. Setting the round war helmet firmly on Martin's head, he strapped the breastplate on and buckled the greaves about the warrior's paws.
Quote from: Excerpt from MossflowerThere was the warrior, standing armor-clad on top of the wall."
There are various other references made to it by the villains, but I guess that is enough evidence. ;)
The shield itself is never mentioned in
Mossflower, so unless it was considered a part of Martin's armor and he simply didn't take it with him, we have to look a little bit further ahead for that for its origin.
My best guess is that just like how the Redwallers made Gonff a flute, which he never used, they also made Martin a shield at some point -- even though he never got around to using it that we know of, it still would have been a nice present for him, considering he had everything else he needed.
Although I guess he was skilfull enough with a sword that he didn't really need a shield. Although, doesn't it mention him blocking one of Tsarmina's attacks with a shield? I'm not sure, but I think I read that somewhere when he was fighting the cat.
I reread it, but it doesn't mention Martin using a shield anywhere; Tsarmina does tear through his armor and knock his helmet away, though.
You have your entire Redwall collection stacked next to you as you write, don't you? :D My mind must be muddled, then.