Does anyone else ever wonder what would have happened to Veil if he had lived? Could he have become a novice at Redwall, or perhaps Abbey Warrior?
:-X
Im not sure...
Maybe abbey warrior, I'm not sure.
He might have became a warrior
I don't think he would! HE'S VEIL!
Quote from: Tam and Martin on August 27, 2013, 01:47:02 PM
I don't think he would! HE'S VEIL!
Ye mean becauze 'e iz made o' meat?
I don't know I'll have to finish lisining to Outcast of Redwall
I really dont think he could live completly good.
Ah zink zat part o' 'iz "badnezz" vaz zere moztly for ze plot o' ze ztory. 'e needed tae be "bad" enough tae get kicked oot o' Redwall, meet up viz 'iz father, an' zen turn around an' take a blov for ze vone vho zought 'im oot (Ach, ah forget 'er name). If it vere nae for ze plot, 'e might 'ave turned oot a vee bit better zen 'e vaz in ze ztory.
Bryony was her name. :)
Did anyone else notice that Veil is Evil with the "e" and "v" switched?
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on August 31, 2013, 09:40:22 PM
Ah zink zat part o' 'iz "badnezz" vaz zere moztly for ze plot o' ze ztory. 'e needed tae be "bad" enough tae get kicked oot o' Redwall, meet up viz 'iz father, an' zen turn around an' take a blov for ze vone vho zought 'im oot (Ach, ah forget 'er name). If it vere nae for ze plot, 'e might 'ave turned oot a vee bit better zen 'e vaz in ze ztory.
I do agree with this. I always thought it was a bit forced the way Veil turned out so bad.
Quote from: Norham Waterpaw on September 01, 2013, 02:45:47 AM
Did anyone else notice that Veil is Evil with the "e" and "v" switched?
That was the idea; BJ hinted at it a few times IIRC, once in a poem I think (been ages since reading it)? Evil, vile...
Now if Bryony had died... well I couldn't imagine Veil being allowed back into the Abbey so he mist likely would have wound up attacking it.
I think that he might have gone back to the Abbey, with Bryony's persuasion, and they would tell the Abbeybeasts how he saved Bryony and maybe they would let him stay there again. Or maybe he wouldn't listen to Bryony and run into the forest and possibly live a peaceful life on his own.
Quote from: PluggFiretail on September 02, 2013, 05:16:06 PM
I think that he might have gone back to the Abbey, with Bryony's persuasion, and they would tell the Abbeybeasts how he saved Bryony and maybe they would let him stay there again. Or maybe he wouldn't listen to Bryony and run into the forest and possibly live a peaceful life on his own.
Better on his own I say...
Av alone....
I think that, even though he risked his life for others, he was evil deep inside. Only more bad would come from him.
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 08, 2013, 02:31:09 AM
I think that, even though he risked his life for others, he was evil deep inside. Only more bad would come from him.
I agree partly with you there. The reason I thin he had the change of heart at the end of the book is that he did like Bryony he just didn't know it until she was threatened to be killed.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 08, 2013, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 08, 2013, 02:31:09 AM
I think that, even though he risked his life for others, he was evil deep inside. Only more bad would come from him.
I agree partly with you there. The reason I thin he had the change of heart at the end of the book is that he did like Bryony he just didn't know it until she was threatened to be killed.
Right. :)
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 08, 2013, 03:01:23 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 08, 2013, 02:53:08 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 08, 2013, 02:31:09 AM
I think that, even though he risked his life for others, he was evil deep inside. Only more bad would come from him.
I agree partly with you there. The reason I thin he had the change of heart at the end of the book is that he did like Bryony he just didn't know it until she was threatened to be killed.
Right. :)
:)
So, does anybody else have an idea?
Bump....if Veil had survived, I suspect if he ever returned to the Abbey, it would've thrown a wrench into their understanding of life. Let's consider that the Abbeybeasts know certain species are "good" and others are "bad". There's very little in-between or else they are given mental ailments such as the crazy squirrel Madd in Taggerrung. If Veil were to return with Bryrony, then I suspect the whole place would've been either subdued or angry simply because they wouldn't understand how a ferret could be "good". Given this, I don't see Veil ever returning; Bryrony would have survived and could've returned to tell the tale, and she'd know that Veil was indeed good, even if no other person believed it.
Quote from: Lutra on November 17, 2013, 03:02:41 AM
Bump....if Veil had survived, I suspect if he ever returned to the Abbey, it would've thrown a wrench into their understanding of life. Let's consider that the Abbeybeasts know certain species are "good" and others are "bad". There's very little in-between or else they are given mental ailments such as the crazy squirrel Madd in Taggerrung. If Veil were to return with Bryrony, then I suspect the whole place would've been either subdued or angry simply because they wouldn't understand how a ferret could be "good". Given this, I don't see Veil ever returning; Bryrony would have survived and could've returned to tell the tale, and she'd know that Veil was indeed good, even if no other person believed it.
Intresting idea...you should see my really long post in the "Bryony's Conclusions" topic; I proposed a rather intresting idea on Veil and why he was "bad"...
If Veil had lived he would continue to be classified as a "bad" beast. The creatures of Mossflower and beyond already know and have learned that all these species are already "bad" and would probably kill Veil on site. I'm pretty sure Veil wouldn't return to Redwall due to all the gossiping beasts who are too hard headed to open their minds. So after he left and isn't accepted in any other "good" species family he'd probably just listen to those stereotypes and become the true "bad" in him.
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior. He saved Bryony he did have some love for her after all. That's the only reason he would save her. I wonder if he was partly depressed and suicidal as well? Probably not.
You should all read my post in the "Bryony's Conclusions" topic in the Character Discussions board. I have proposed a rather intresting theory there on the whole matter of Veil being good or not and the affect of the creatures around him at Redwall.
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 19, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
But what qualities did Veil have that would make him a good Abbey warrior?
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 19, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
But what qualities did Veil have that would make him a good Abbey warrior?
Well I just wouldn't say never. He most likely won't but there is a very tiny chance that he could turn good or he does something to save the Abbey etc. to where he might gain that position.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 20, 2013, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 19, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
But what qualities did Veil have that would make him a good Abbey warrior?
Well I just wouldn't say never. He most likely won't but there is a very tiny chance that he could turn good or he does something to save the Abbey etc. to where he might gain that position.
Was there actually ever an Abbey warrior in
Outcast Of Redwall?
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 20, 2013, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 19, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
But what qualities did Veil have that would make him a good Abbey warrior?
Well I just wouldn't say never. He most likely won't but there is a very tiny chance that he could turn good or he does something to save the Abbey etc. to where he might gain that position.
Was there actually ever an Abbey warrior in Outcast Of Redwall?
Negative. There was no one as abbey warrior in OoR.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 21, 2013, 04:13:05 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 20, 2013, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 20, 2013, 12:37:10 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 19, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 18, 2013, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 18, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 18, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Veil was bad. Not evil, but not good at all. He never would have been Abbey Warrior.
That pretty much sums up everything.
Veil could NEVER become the Abbey warrior.
Well, I wouldn't go that far with it.... ::)
But what qualities did Veil have that would make him a good Abbey warrior?
Well I just wouldn't say never. He most likely won't but there is a very tiny chance that he could turn good or he does something to save the Abbey etc. to where he might gain that position.
Was there actually ever an Abbey warrior in Outcast Of Redwall?
Negative. There was no one as abbey warrior in OoR.
Alright, I remember now; Martin died, mayhaps shortly before OoR started, and they probably didn't have anybody else to fill the position.
Did the book say there wasn't an abbey warrior? Because if it didn't, it's possible that the Redwallers had an abbey warrior, but he (or she) didn't have any affect on the story because they were out helping someone with a war in their area
Quote from: Romsca on November 23, 2013, 01:16:54 AM
Did the book say there wasn't an abbey warrior? Because if it didn't, it's possible that the Redwallers had an abbey warrior, but he (or she) didn't have any affect on the story because they were out helping someone with a war in their area
Judging from the settings in the book, I don't think there was any war to fight within a good distance of Redwall.
There could have been in an island somewhere, or in the desert near Loamhedge, or in Southsward, or in the Northlands... wait, what's that? Do I hear a FANFIC idea?
Quote from: Romsca on November 23, 2013, 03:48:42 PM
There could have been in an island somewhere, or in the desert near Loamhedge, or in Southsward, or in the Northlands... wait, what's that? Do I hear a FANFIC idea?
Yes... ;D
Anyways, this is starting to veer off topic, so lets get back to the general discussion of Veil....
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 23, 2013, 06:49:22 PM
Quote from: Romsca on November 23, 2013, 03:48:42 PM
There could have been in an island somewhere, or in the desert near Loamhedge, or in Southsward, or in the Northlands... wait, what's that? Do I hear a FANFIC idea?
Yes... ;D
Anyways, this is starting to veer off topic, so lets get back to the general discussion of Veil....
Ah like meat... *cricketz chirp* Anyvay...
'e might 'ave become Abbey varrior. Vho kenz?
That what I was saying! It is not impossible for him to become Abbey Warrior.
That's right, although he would have been more coldhearted towards friend and foe alike.
I've always thought gray characters were so interesting.
i think veil would have ran away and kept wandering until he gathered a vermin band
Quote from: doogy plum on December 01, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
i think veil would have ran away and kept wandering until he gathered a vermin band
OH MY GOSH IT'S ANOTHER DOOGY PLUMM! HIIIII!
...Sorry, got carried away there.
Back on topic. :D
Quote from: doogy plum on December 01, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
i think veil would have ran away and kept wandering until he gathered a vermin band
Hmmm....think you can give more detail to your idea, doogy?
Quote from: doogy plum on December 01, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
i think veil would have ran away and kept wandering until he gathered a vermin band
Yeah
That's a brilliant question... I think he would have run away unable to contain his guilt. And become horrible again.