The Redwall Calendar

[LT Sandpaw]

Hey everyone, so I was thinking about character ages today and I got to thinking, 'How do Redwallers mark their calendar?' I know they use season names to characterize each new season, and as there are four seasons per year and lots more years its easy to assume they have to repeat a few names every now and then but that wouldn't mess with research to much, or would it?

My question/idea is that they have to somehow keep up with every day of the year, and how would they do that? My first thought was that they'd number them like we do except on a smaller scale seasons straight to days. So their records would be dated something like.

Summer of the Pickled Pickles day 7

Autumn of the Pink Trees day 50

So on and so forth. But then it hit me that style wouldn't work because they don't have a direct change of season. Moreover the Abbess or Abbot plans the name and then declares it whenever its convenient for them. This is shown in Mattimeo when Cornflower begs the Abbot not to name the season until the travelers return.

But this causes problems because there might be nighty days in the Summer of the Pickled Pickles, and the eighty in the Summer of Dancing Fish. Which would then whack up when the Autumn of Spinning Cyclones begins.

This would in turn ruin how many days are in a year and then disrupt everything because they would have to keep compensating for when they named the season for when the name the next one. Numbering the dates would be downright Impossible because the poor recorders wouldn't know what the season's number is.

Extract from Assistant Recorder Brynn in the Autumn of Warm Weather day 113.

      It is now snowing in the Autumn of Warm Weather because our lazy Abbot can't decided on a name. We can only hope that no one gets a message from Martin because then I'd have to record it, and future generations would know how lazy our Abbot is. We ought to name it the Winter of the Lazy Abbot.

So how do the Redwallers solve this problem? Any ideas?

[Banya]

This is an interesting idea (and an entertaining Recorder's entry).  My best guess at the moment in that they have a certain number of lunar cycles in each season and in that way can determine when a new season begins.  That's a more reliable method that waiting for the weather to change, because leaves can fall in late summer and snow can still be heavy in early spring.  The Season Naming is a way to mark and celebrate the start of the new season, but that doesn't make it the actual start of the season.  Hopefully, as we do on the forum, they choose a name a little earlier, so they're prepared for the season's start.  The exceptions to this are in situations where they're preoccupied with battle or other emergencies and Abbey life isn't as it normally would be, or when some even happens that supplies them with the perfect name for a season where they hadn't had a name already chosen.

[Hickory]

We see in Salamandastron that the Redwallers hold a seasonal "Name Day," to name the season. For example, while Samkin and Arula are away, Dumble wants to call the season the "H'autumn of the H'eagle" when Nameday rolls around. Vale waits until the heroes return before actually holding the feast and celebration, but, if I remember correctly, she still recognizes the season as autumm.

Putting aside book inconsistencies, it seems that there are a few instances of direct indicators of seasons. In Mossflower, I believe, a Dibbun (probably one of Goody's hogbabes) comments on the leaves turning brown and falling to the ground. One of the adults replies with saying that it's because the trees don't need the leaves anymore, and then says something about autumm starting. Another example is in Taggerung, where Rukky Garge says that Deyna will be healed "when the russet apples fall," which Mhera takes to heart and literally waits until a russet apple falls. This may well be something random that Rukky made up, or, it could mean the start of autumm.


Disclaimer: I could be completely wrong.

[The Skarzs]

This is an interesting idea (and an entertaining Recorder's entry).  My best guess at the moment in that they have a certain number of lunar cycles in each season and in that way can determine when a new season begins.  That's a more reliable method that waiting for the weather to change, because leaves can fall in late summer and snow can still be heavy in early spring.  The Season Naming is a way to mark and celebrate the start of the new season, but that doesn't make it the actual start of the season.  Hopefully, as we do on the forum, they choose a name a little earlier, so they're prepared for the season's start.  The exceptions to this are in situations where they're preoccupied with battle or other emergencies and Abbey life isn't as it normally would be, or when some even happens that supplies them with the perfect name for a season where they hadn't had a name already chosen.

While I agree that the moon cycles are definitely unique to seasons, the cycles are not the same every year. Sure, there is an average amount of full and new moons per season, but the cycles change. (Case in point: Easter is decided by the Sunday after the first full moon in spring; it changes year to year. This year it is rather early, but others it is very late.) If you made the argument about moon cycles, you may as well say that the signs of autumn, spring, and the others are just as reliable a time-setting.

For centuries before the modern calendar, people still used months in the year, using some of the moon cycles as aid, and they were about 30 days each. This caused problems as the years eventually were not quite the same length according to natural indication, and it was further refined by Julius Cæsar, and later by Gregory XIII into what we we have now.
While it would not be the most confusing thing in the world, having each season be around 90 days long would probably be the simplest way to go, adding or losing days as needed to help accost for the irregularities. Now, if recording these changes were necessary, it would be a simple task to note in the records that "This season has been shortened to 88 days due to X reason."
Every year might also have a label, of some kind, perhaps as an aging system of Redwall (300th seasonal cycle of the starting of Redwall Abbey, in the eighth spring of Ben Glorby's appointment as father abbot.) If this were done, then it would ease looking back in records a bit. They do mention in the books several times of the recorder mentioning how this or that book was during the time of so and so as abbess or abbot, as well as the seasonal names.

A civilized peoples usually comes up with some way to record time. You see it in Egypt and China with their dynasties, as well as in Rome with. . . their name for the starting of their recorded history. It's likely the Redwallers have some form of yearly labeling, if the seasonal recording is to be any indication of their dedication to logging events.

[Wylder Treejumper]

Intriguing. I believe it could be similar to the Realms Reckoning (bonus points for anyone who gets the reference); they name the years, but also use a numerical reckoning. From the time of Redwall's construction would seem to be reasonable.

It is safe to assume they have a good system, they are educated and make a great point of recording everything- including pointless things- that occur.

[alexandre]

I don't think they counted days, maybe they just changed the decided season when they felt like it.

[The Skarzs]

Or when it was obviously the change of the season.

[alexandre]

Or when it was obviously the change of the season.

exactly

[Wylder Treejumper]

I don't know if they had a day calendar, but it does seem to me that they recorded the dates of the changing of the seasons, so that overall the days would be recorded. I believe they dated things in "such and such day of such and such season" and it would be reasonable to assume that they would thus date also the changing of seasons- "such and such season became such and such season on the such and such day due to such and such reason".

That is a lot of "such and such"...

[alexandre]

yes, that does make such sense 

[Ashleg]

Why is this under "History, Legends, and Myths"?

[Wylder Treejumper]

History, I would say.

[Ashleg]

I guess...