On Reporting

[Ouroboros]

Recently, a reply was posted which caught my attention concerning the report function. This post was deleted after a few hours, likely due to containing confidential information; however, I believe the post's points were valid enough to be discussed in a more anonymous format.

The issue this post drew light to was what was perceived to be a misuse of the report to moderator function, as multiple reports had been filed unnecessarily. I would like to start a discourse on this issue, as I believe something should only be reported to a moderator if it is in violation of the rules. Excessive, unnecessary reporting of acceptable content is, in my opinion, a waste of the staff's time.

Firstly, I would like to address how the report function is addressed in the Forum Rules and Tammo's recent announcement. In the Forum Rules, reporting a post is encouraged in the following scenarios: If you believe you have been "flamed" or "trolled," if you encounter a spambot, or if you believe something is in violation of another rule.

While it is natural that some unnecessary reports will still be filed despite these rules due to peoples' subjective interpretations of them, outlining when reporting is acceptable ensures that the report function is primarily used for its intended purpose.

Where this becomes blurred; however, is when Tammo's recent announcement is considered. Specifically, the following section:

If you're unsure about a post or are feeling uneasy about something, we want you to use the report button to let us know.

I disagree with this section. As opposed to the interpretation giving by the Forum Rules, this is far less objective. Every person has a different level of sensitivity, and encouraging them to report anything that makes them "feel uneasy" opens the gate to reports specifically based on individual, subjective opinion. This is a problem, as the recent post concerning reporting showed. People should not be getting offended on others' behalves; if the person you are reporting on behalf of finds a post offensive, they will deal with it. Similarly, if a joke could be interpreted as "rude" to somebody who is not a member on the site, reporting it is unnecessary. I say "rude" in quotation marks as many of these reports were for trivial things that a reasonable person would not find offensive.

Reporting should not be based on subjective opinion, it should be reserved for actual breaches of the rules. If a report must be filed for an "offensive" post, the person it is directed to should make the choice whether or not to report it.

What are your opinions on this issue?

[Tungro]

Here goes,

In my mind reporting is for extremely sensitive and/or urgent matters and not for minor concerns. In the case of sensitive material, do not report it if you are not involved, as it could just confuse the matter more and you may have misunderstood what was going on. For things such as off topic posting, this can be very easily corrected with a reminder post and does not require a report. If you are that sensitive, just PM the moderators and express your concern and they will deal with it accordingly.
Keep in mind this is just my opinion, and I am not challenging anyone else's

[Ouroboros]

I agree. I would say; however, that off topic posting could be deserving of a report if it gets too serious, but most of the time a simple reminder tacked onto the end of a post that already contributes content is sufficient.

[Tungro]

I completely agree.

I would be interested on what a moderator has to say on the subject...

[DanielofRedwall]

Here's my (and I believe most of the Staff's) perspective. Other staff members: feel free to chip in.

As much as we endeavour to, we cannot really have eyes on absolutely every post that happens on this forum. I don't think any member is really capable of that. Therefore reporting is extremely useful for us to be notified of anything that members are unsure of. We honestly do not mind having a handful of reports to look through even if they are all 'wrong', because they help direct our attention to where we might be needed. (Honestly, there are less reports that happen overall than you might think.)

With all due respect (and I really do hope this does not sound condescending or harsh or anything like that), reporting is between the reporter and the staff, with no real wider implications. Therefore I think it is appropriate for us to set the sort of 'agenda' on how it is dealt with. This current lot of Staff have decided that, in order to best implement our accountability and approachability policy, reporting goes right to that. Personally, I do not see how subjectivity is an issue here. At the end of the day, if a member feels uncomfortable about something and reports it, it is still on the staff to make the judgement call, and it is the same whether it is an "objective" or "subjective" decision.

That said, if you are more comfortable PMing rather than reporting, go for it! So long as you feel comfortable coming to us with any concerns about a post, member, or really anything forum related, that's the main thing, no matter how you take that approach. Either way, we would always rather you come to us instead of posting on the thread itself. If you are wrong about something it makes handling it much easier (and potentially less embarrassing depending on the situation).

[Tungro]

I think that members where more concerned on how it was making them look in the eyes of the moderators to be constantly reported

[Chipster of Noonvale]

If a post gets reported and it turns out that there's nothing wrong with the post, the staff will simply close the report and PM the reporter to explain why they don't feel any action is necessary; there shouldn't be any negative consequences for the member whose post was reported.  After reporting enough harmless posts, the reporters will eventually become better at identifying which ones do need reporting.

Excessive, unnecessary reporting of acceptable content is, in my opinion, a waste of the staff's time.

I can agree with that.  Staff time is very limted, especially since Tammo is currently on vacation, leaving only two active staff members instead of the usual three.  Hopefully the new mods that will be promoted over the next few months will help with this.

Although, based on Dan's post, the staff doesn't seem to think that the current situation qualifies as "excessive, unnecessary reporting of acceptable content".  But I think we can all agree that reporting the same post more than once, or reporting all the posts of one thread, are bad ideas.

Reporting should not be based on subjective opinion, it should be reserved for actual breaches of the rules.

The problem with that is that the rules are sometimes awkwardly worded, and it's not always very clear if something violates the rules.  Better to report the post or PM the staff, and let them determine what course of action, if any, is necessary.

For things such as off topic posting, this can be very easily corrected with a reminder post and does not require a report.

Eh, I'm not sure.  Wouldn't such comments, coming from non-staff members, qualify as backseat moderating? (staff, please correct me if I'm wrong, about this or anything else in this post)

That said, if you are more comfortable PMing rather than reporting, go for it!

Probably what I'll be doing most of the time from now on.

I think that members where more concerned on how it was making them look in the eyes of the moderators to be constantly reported

I don't think a member having a lot of their posts reported should negatively affect the staff's opinion of them, but perhaps they could elaborate on that?

I'm sorry if I misunderstood anyone's posts...

[DanielofRedwall]

I don't think a member having a lot of their posts reported should negatively affect the staff's opinion of them, but perhaps they could elaborate on that?

Correct. We'll appreciate the passion more than anything.

[Captain Tammo]

Thanks for setting up this topic Ouroboros - these things are important to discuss.

I fully agree with everything you've said, Dan. Couldn't have said it better myself!