Redwall Population

[Hazelrah42]

Hey all!

I was wondering what you thought the population of Redwall would be under normal circumstances. Below are my ideas but I'd like your input as well.

Based on average crop yield per acre under ideal conditions could grow 60,000 pounds of food per acre, however, assuming soil variance, quality and growing conditions, normal output would be around 50,000 pounds. Based diet diversity and food consumption rates the following population composition would be:
    1. Mice - 55%
    2. Hedgehogs - 31%
    3. Moles - 10%
    4. Squirrels - 3%
    5. Otters - 2%

Otters don't reside at Redwall 24/7 because a River Otter eats up to 11% of its body weight per day, so the River Miss provides most of their food.

Based on these VERY rough calculations the normal population would between 200-350, with the flat lands North of Redwall being leased on a tithe to woodland tenant farmers as Common Land.

The relationship between the Woodlanders and Redwall is that the Woodlanders provide labor//soldiers for Redwall and any excess food they bring with them, in exchange for protection, education, and medical aid.

What do you think?

[Mara the Wolf]

Firstly, how did you come up with these calculations? Is there some formula out there that determines population based on crop production?

Secondly, I highly doubt there's soil variation where the Redwallers grow their crops. They have a small section dedicated to gardens and an orchard, as well their own beehives, but I think soil variation requires them to have way more land than the books imply. Soil doesn't vary acre-to-acre, as far as I'm aware. But then, I don't or care much about crops.

Third, you have to remember not every spare inch of Redwall is dedicated to crops. There's a big lawn for holding outdoor celebrations, a huge pond, an apiary (well, they have beehives, so it'd make sense to have one), and of course, they probably have a nice chunk of space as a burial ground (and as much as dead things provide good fertilizer, I'm pretty sure that, like humans, they'd consider it disrespectful to grow plants over someone's grave).

Fourth, Redwall otters probably do spend most of their lives in Redwall itself. The abbey has its own pond, with fish and shrimp'n'hotroot soup being regular dishes, and on this, I do know a little (granted, not much, but enough) about fish populations in ponds. You take some barrels of fish (and/or freshwater shrimp if you want those), you gently replace some of the barrel's water with water from where you're going to release them to so they can get accustomed to the new water and not die of shock when you dump them in (it's recommended you do this for tank fish too), you give them a day or two to adjust to the new water, then you release 'em and wait a month or two to get accustomed, grow up (if they're young ones, though you have wait longer depending on the fish or other water-dweller), and start breeding. If you overfish the shrimp, just head out to the River Moss a few days to net some more and take back to restock the pond.

Woodlanders do not provide labor and soldiers - the Gousim are regular allies that travel all over Mossflower, and there's isolated little homesteads and tribes (like Camp Willow), but most of these are peaceful little woodlanders who know of Redwall, but don't visit unless vermin have driven them to the sanctuary of the Abbey (like Cluny's horde, or Slagar kidnapping Auma & Jube).

[saugysaugysaugy]

Knowing very little about how population growth works, or about food consumption rates, I'm not going to comment on that bit. You've shown your work so I'll trust your calculations. I'm all in for relationship between woodlanders and Redwallers and common land in Mossflower Country though!

Not to delve deep into the subject, but at least on the topic of how Redwall Abbey managed crops you can look at Thünen's model of The Isolated State. Taking a barebones look at the Abbey, it acts the part of a city-centre for Mossflower Country.

Lawns and orchards within the Abbey walls would've been the main source of produce for Redwall, and seen intensive growing of fruits and vegetables. Their most precious crops would have been grown here, the ones that would have been taken straight to the kitchens for food prep, and not need any processing. Basically all of the food that could go bad and needed to be as close to the kitchens as possible. For the smaller historical city, horticulture (also dairying and livestock, but that's of no matter here) could easily be contained within the communities walls, as it is at Redwall Abbey.

On the opposite side of the north-south path (and the ditch that seems relevant enough to show up on most of the maps), would've been where Mossflower Country transitions into the Western Plains, and where the agriculture proper of Redwall would probably be. Rolling seas of your grains and barleys, and also large scale cultivation of certain regional-specific produce, as opposed to the more heirloomish orchards and gardens inside the Abbey. This is also where we would see soil variance, and probably the likes of crop rotation like the three-field system.

Since you can grab any book in the series and see an immense amount of cheeses scoffed at any single feast, and with Brian Jacques confirming it was plant-based milk the woodlanders used, whatever plant that was probably would've seen large-scale cultivation in the fields outside of the Abbey. The fields and meadows south of Redwall leading down to St Ninian's might have been ideal for that kind of intensive agriculture.

This is pure speculation on my part, and just how I imagine the world of Redwall, but it is at this distance out from the Abbey we would probably see small settlements, especially when close to the paths and the River Moss.