Distant past and distant future

[WUMASTER]

I've always been wondering, what happens after the Redwall series? What happens when the industrial revolution begins, and they are able to have electricity?

What happened in the distant past of Redwall? What was it like before The Legend of Luke?

My theories:
In the distant past, humans roamed the planet. However, after some natural disaster, humans were wiped off the face of the earth. Then, mice, moles, shrews, rats, foxes, etc. began evolving and developed intelligence equal to man's. They grew larger, and started their own civilization.

Then, after the end of the series, the industrial revolution begins. Electricity is installed in Redwall, Salamandastron, and several other areas like Castle Floret. The Internet is created, and computers become on sale. It becomes like the 21st century world today.

A possible sequel to Redwall could be Geronimo Stilton? 
I don't know, but the Geronimo stilton series has only rodents and a few other kids of animals. Maybe natural selection?

What are your theories?
Try to use your imagination!

[The Skarzs]

Interesting topic.

I personally don't like the idea of humans existing previously in the Redwall universe. I haven't really considered what went on in the "distant" past, as we ourselves have a lot of different views of how our own world started.

However, in the future, that is a little more easily guessed. We already saw advancements in technology in The Rogue Crew, with the ballista on the ship as well as small crossbows the foxes had, which were previously unseen, and we know that book is the latest chronologically. In that book (or was it High Rhulain?) we also saw Salamandastron building a navy. This would expand the reach of knowledge, cause exploration, bring new ideas, and even more advancements. This may also lead to a more centralized and organized government. Eventually, roads would be built, pikely between Salamandastron and Redwall, and population would rise. This would cause more need for industry and resources, and expanding outside of Redwall would be necessary.
Then, I feel, we would have the gradual ramping up of technology similar to our own world, but I think it would be a little slower, since the age we see in Redwall is anywhere from the ninth to fourteenth century, where much trade between distant lands was already present in our own world.

Then again, their world doesn't seem to have the same troubles ours did at that time. There may not be a need to do anything different for a very long time, and necessity is the mother of invention.

[WUMASTER]

Warning: Spoilers for other books as well.

I do agree with you about the inventions. I didn't really pay that much attention to the technology, till I read your post. The Redwallers might just not need that many inventions. Or, they may simply not have the resources for those.

I would have liked to have read a Redwall book where they invented gunpowder, though. That would make an interesting twist.

As for the humans, I do like to connect fiction to our own universe. But while reading the stories for the first time three years ago, I never thought of things this way, so it might make the series more enjoyable if it is simply a different universe without us existing in it.

A different theory for humans, though:
In H. G. Well's The Time Machine, the year 802701 shows humans to have evolved into two species. The Eloi, which are simple-minded people who spend their days playing; and the Morlocks, ape-like creatures living in underground tunnels, that come out at night to eat the Eloi. Present-day animals could cross with those species. Ones that cross with the Eloi become goodbeasts, and gradually evolve intelligence. Ones that cross with the Morlocks become vermin, and also gradually evolve intelligence. Because the vermin are descended from the Morlocks, they have evilness in their genes, and continue to treat others that way.

Then, after a plague or something, only rodents remained. They started the industrial revolution. One of them ran a publisher, and his name was Geronimo Stilton. Rodents were the dominant species, although others still remained.

Later, owls and birds of prey evolved to be more intelligent. They eventually ruled over the rodent world. Not knowing how to use technology, they burned it. They used rodents as their prey. One of the owls' names was Soren. (Guardians of Ga'hoole)



Perhaps Redwall came BEFORE humans. Humans evolved from Redwall beasts. Perhaps more likely, then?

[The Skarzs]

Honestly, that's still pretty far-fetched to my thinking, but that's me.

As I see it, there would have to be some very specific things to happen for all to come out the way you described, and would be pretty unlikely. Please understand that I don't support the theory of evolution, so I'm looking at it from a different lens.
If I were to make my own theory that did include humans previously, I would say that humans were deemed unworthy to continue and their line was ended/destroyed, and the species we see in Redwall were given intelligence by a higher being. But once again I don't like the idea of humans every existing in this universe.
When it comes to humans evolving from Redwall creatures (and again, I don't support evolution) I'm not sure how a single species, homo sapiens (or even the other small similar species like Neanderthal), would have come from multiple species of animals so different than us.

As for connecting the stories, well, that's certainly an interesting head cannon. I haven't read Guardians of Ga'hoole, and very little of Geronimo Stilton, but it appears that their own worlds have different rules that clash with that of Redwall and one another. There may have to be some serious tweaking in order to fit them together.

[gojuchrisa]

Very interesting topic

Past:
The animals in Redwall tend to be humanoid in several fashions so i would assume that animals were experimented on by humans similar to the planet of the apes movies. Experiments focused on growth regulation, intelligence, and warfare aggression.  Getting us creatures scaled closer to size in a humanoid fashion, intelligent kind creatures, and vermin that nearly always baddies.  UK based experiments so all creatures speak close to english.  Humans are wiped out and Redwall animals evolve and adapt to the simple times we see them in.

Future:
After the Redwall i see them improving technologically only so far though and probably just short of an industrial revolution.  They live much more in touch with the environment similar to asian and native american cultures that because of this progressed slower with simpler lifestyles with less technology.

[The Skarzs]

That's a more plausible explanation. Thanks for sharing, goju.
Though under what circumstances would it benefit anyone to have a certain group have negative traits like overall low intelligence and bad behavioral tendencies?

[MeadowR]

No wild theories here... I just think that the animals developed in a similar way to how humans have developed in this world. 'Simplistic' animals at first gradually evolve, yadda yadda. (One could stroke their chin over whether there were apes in the Africa-like Redwall (if 'big' deer existed, then so could they) and how evolution would work then.) The Redwall world has never had - and will never have - humans in it in my view. I would put the Redwall stories as working out on average, thinking about the types of characters and 'technology', as later medieval at the earliest with some elements closer to the 1600s. The Redwall world clearly doesn't exactly follow the same ordering as our world, from even small details such as the way some characters (namely the hares) speak. (The hares are a lot of the reason why the timeline works out futher on than 1300s, etc.) It seems like gunpowder was getting close! Fastforwarding a few centuries, I think certain things would be still developing at different paces. Perhaps they would come up with better answers to things than us! Maybe many of them would care more about the environment. The future of Redwall is quite a lot to think about really, more thought than I can provide at this time.

I'll see if I can add anything to this at a later date.

[Captain Tammo]

I like to think this is how things turn out in the future of Redwall. I absolutely adore this picture:

(the sign says "Redwall Abbey / Mossflower Country / Historic Site")

This picture is from Pacificmaelstrom - an old member on the forum (their art thread is here)

[The Skarzs]

Ah yes. That picture is cool.

[Hazelrah42]

I actually really wanted to write a series called Rattenkrieg based on this concept. It's essentially the Redwall universe but the setting is in WW1. The premise is that it actually takes place in the Alsace-Lorraine portion of France. The good species we see in Redwall all form what is called the Federation of Species and they have inhabited the bunkers and fortresses of the Maginot Line. Humans have killed each other as a result of a Cold War gone hot but they are referenced in this series as "The Ones Who Came Before". The Federation uses the inherited weapons and technology from humans however the other predatory species have formed their own separate kingdoms or nations. They all not only fight each other but they fight the Federation whenever they can. The only reason why the Federation hasn't fallen is simply because the other species haven't united like they have, otherwise, their sheer weight of numbers would be enough to wipe everybody out.