'Fringe' Species

[W0NWILL]

Of all the different species in Redwall, some of the ones that interest me the most are the reptiles, those snakes and lizards and toads/frogs(okay, amphibians too...). From what I've seen, they're largely sentient, have a means of communication with other species, and yet live all alone in their swamps or woodlands. So why don't they join society at large? There's not one instance of a lizard living at Redwall, or even serving in a vermin horde, outside the ones in Pearls of Lutra. Why is that? Do y'all think the mammals don't accept them because they've got cold blood?

The same thoughts also extend to birds. There's only a few birds that live with other species in the entire series. Mainly the Sparra, some owls and hawks, and the carrion from Doomwyte.

Just some thoughts I've been having recently, and I wanna know what all you think.

[Dag Downyfur]

Maybe the reptiles and birds didn't want to be considered specifically vermin nor goodbeasts, the way most other species that are a part of Redwall are classified. Perhaps they wanted to remain neutral, and not bother with the warring affairs between the two categories. Just a random thought.

[Blazemane]

I feel like all of the amphibians and reptiles, with the exception of Rockbottom from Rakkety Tam, were characterized as savage cannibals. So I think they couldn't join society at large. Even the vermin didn't want to have anything to do with them.

The monitor lizards working for Ulbaz Mad Eyes seemed to be able to rein their instincts back a bit--enough that Ulbaz was willing to use them. But even he, I think, was deliberately trying to use their brutal reputation as an intimidation factor for his enemies. And in the end, they wound up degrading into exactly what the other vermin were expecting of them. Given enough time on the journey back to Sampetra, they didn't want to keep Abbot Durral as a prisoner anymore; they wanted to eat him.

The birds... I don't know. Some of the song birds don't even seem capable of speech; they become part of the atmosphere of the story. But then there are the character likes Rocangus and Lord Mactalon who can communicate easily with other species and manage to live together in their own clan. And then characters like Boldred and Sir Harry the Muse are full-fledged (Oh dear. I really didn't mean to do that, but I guess I'm keeping it now) scholars. I think what keeps the birds apart from the rest of the species--if there is any logical explanation--is their free-spirited nature. I get the sense that a lot of them, spending as much time in the air as they do, were written in such a way that they didn't want to feel... rooted to the ground too much, if that makes sense?

But with the way they're set up in the books, I think they most certainly could have lived with other species if... well, if Jacques had the slightest whim that he wanted them to.

[The Mask]

Och, but the owl in Doomwhyte joined the Abbey, as did another owl. Also ye could say in Martin the Warrior the owl family had a lot of dealing with Noonvale.

[willruth]

I always thought only the larger reptiles and amphibians were just partially cannibalistic and the birds were too much of travellers to settle down much.Also you forgot to mention Snakefish,the sentient eel!