Since Today is the 4th of July...

[Jukka the Sling]

Squabbling? Who's squabbling? Jet and I are just having a friendly discussion!

[Cornflower MM]

Humph.

[Jetthebinturong]

Then they and I have a different outlook on life

Based on what you just said, you are in no position to say whether the Conquistadors were good or bad, no matter what they did. After all, they just had a different outlook than YOU do.

According to my moral code, the Conquistadors were terrible people and if anyone's moral code allowed them to defend the Conquistadors then I'd wonder how on Earth they came up with such a skewed moral code

Again, according to what you said earlier, the Conquistadors just had a "different outlook" than you do. So did the Aztecs. Yet you have the audacity to say they were evil? That's completely inconsistent with your worldview, because according to the logical conclusions of atheism and its poisonous fruit, moral relativism, everything's relative and there's no objective standard to judge anyone's actions by. Your declarations on their behavior is merely how YOU feel about it. Your opinion is not based on any transcendent moral code. Ergo, it carries no weight.

Atheism is less poisonous than religion. How many non-religious atrocities have you heard of? I know the Holocaust was non-religious on the side of the Nazis and Joseph Stalin's rise to power. However I can name many religious atrocities

The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
The Borgia Family's reign
The Aztec religion
The Conquistadors
America's current terrorist problem (mostly)
The Al Qaeda in general

[Cornflower MM]

Ugh. I give up.....

[Jetthebinturong]

Sorry but if someone is going to call atheism poisonous then I'm going to go back and correct them

[Cornflower MM]

Probably a good idea. But could you do it over PMs, you two? This is what, the second time you've gone at it hammer and tongs? Or am I thinking of Jet and some other person?

[Jetthebinturong]

I think it was me, Ferrousferret and Jukka

[Cornflower MM]

Probably......

[The Skarzs]

Probably a good idea. But could you do it over PMs, you two? This is what, the second time you've gone at it hammer and tongs? Or am I thinking of Jet and some other person?

Hammer and tongs you say? I'm going to make a fish next time I get going with the forge. . .
And a picture holder, and another knife. . .

[Jukka the Sling]

Then they and I have a different outlook on life

Based on what you just said, you are in no position to say whether the Conquistadors were good or bad, no matter what they did. After all, they just had a different outlook than YOU do.

According to my moral code, the Conquistadors were terrible people and if anyone's moral code allowed them to defend the Conquistadors then I'd wonder how on Earth they came up with such a skewed moral code

Again, according to what you said earlier, the Conquistadors just had a "different outlook" than you do. So did the Aztecs. Yet you have the audacity to say they were evil? That's completely inconsistent with your worldview, because according to the logical conclusions of atheism and its poisonous fruit, moral relativism, everything's relative and there's no objective standard to judge anyone's actions by. Your declarations on their behavior is merely how YOU feel about it. Your opinion is not based on any transcendent moral code. Ergo, it carries no weight.

Atheism is less poisonous than religion. How many non-religious atrocities have you heard of? I know the Holocaust was non-religious on the side of the Nazis and Joseph Stalin's rise to power. However I can name many religious atrocities

The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
The Borgia Family's reign
The Aztec religion
The Conquistadors
America's current terrorist problem (mostly)
The Al Qaeda in general

Atheist leaders Stalin and Mao killed upwards of 80 million people between them over a span of a few short years. Where atheism has dominated, millions have suffered under totalitarian regimes with the attending gulags, forced labor, and mass starvation. (I hope what you said several days ago on the "Christians" thread in the Cellars, about abolishing all religions if you ruled the world, isn't a faint shadow of that same totalitarian tendency.) The Inquisition killed around 5,000 over a period of about 150 years. Every one of these murderers will be judged by God.

But this is a side issue, and gets off the main point, which I must reiterate to you: You can furnish dozens of atrocities committed by anybody, anywhere, and at the end of the day, according to your worldview, they merely have a "different outlook" and "moral code." Since you have no transcendent moral code, all you have is your personal opinion and feelings about any of these matters.

What's needed is a moral code that transcends personal opinion, that tells one specifically what's right and what's not. That moral code is the Bible. Without it, Western civilization could never exist the way it does today.

I also believe that the Lord is the supreme Ruler and righteous Judge who will put everything right in the end. Only he can accomplish this. We can't earn God's forgiveness and Heaven by being good; the only way is by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I've enjoyed this debate, but we're getting this thread seriously off track. This is the last time I'm gonna post here. If you wanna continue debating, PM me.

[Cornflower MM]

Probably a good idea. But could you do it over PMs, you two? This is what, the second time you've gone at it hammer and tongs? Or am I thinking of Jet and some other person?

Hammer and tongs you say? I'm going to make a fish next time I get going with the forge. . .
And a picture holder, and another knife. . .

Really? That sounds absolutely interesting....*Says this with abnormaly loud voice*

[The Skarzs]

It is quite interesting.
Did you know that blacksmithing in the US has had a huge influx of younger people interested in it? *Loud Voice*

[Cornflower MM]

REALLY? I DIDN'T KNOW! *Even louder voice*

[Gwen A. Mouse]

Really? Actually, I'm not surprised. If I knew where to learn, I'd totally be getting lessons.