2016 Presidential Elections

[Ashleg]

*Couldn't really care less*

Er...
Was that directed at me?

I feel justified to be scared...

[Rusvul]

Complain away SJW. No one is stopping you.

You having and voicing opinions is okay. Jet having and voicing opinions is okay. Your opinion differing from Jet's (and the inverse) is okay. You speaking out and saying that you disagree with Jet's opinion (and the inverse) is okay. You using a pejorative term to dismiss Jet's opinions out of hand, though, is not okay. (Also it's ad hominem, though pointing out fallacies in any conversation about politics on the internet is probably a lost cause.)

The electoral college is important. Its vitally important. Without it no one would care about what the people in Alaska thought, or Montana or Rhode Island, no one would care what the ranchers, and farmers, and small town families think. All they'd care about is what the big cities want. And big cities don't want the same things as the smaller towns.

I disagree. All individuals should have equal voting power, regardless of who they are or where they live. Granted, this means that pleasing states like those you've listed less important, but the majority ought to be what matters.

[Grond]

the popular vote should matter more, since, y'know, that's what the voice of the people is

True the voice of the people matters but true democracy is mob rule, which is a terrifying thing. Mobs can be easily influenced. Ancient Greece was horribly damaged by mob rule. A lot of democrats were surprised by the fact that trump won but that's because the media was constantly lying to them. Not enough people research and think for themselves, mob rule would open us to even more corruption because people would be suseptable to blindly following whoever is supported by main stream media. The problem with news these days is that almost every single source is biased. You can't be completely sure of something you hear about unless you experienced it yourself. The media has become the gate keepers of politics and that is not ok.

Well both Brexit and President Trump were treated as "jokes" or something that would never happen and then both did. The media or the pollsters failed to get people's actual opinions rather they were portraying their own opinion or belief in the matter. Also I think the extent of people's discontent with the status quo was not acknowledged or understood.

[Jetthebinturong]

@LT Sandpaw:

Yep just label everyone who disagrees with you as an SJW, that makes sense.

Allow me to tell you about a legal modern torture practice that nutters like to call "conversion therapy." It's ineffective and not backed up by science. What is backed up by science is that it almost invariably causes psychological damage. People who undergo it have about a 50% suicide rate, and those that survive are scarred for life. Who diverted $2000 of federal funding to doing it to minors? Mike Zeus-cursed Pence.

For those of you who don't understand the horror of "conversion therapy," allow me to post the incredibly disturbing story of anonymous Twitter user, TeenageCloseted, a survivor of conversion therapy who can barely talk about his experiences and seeing Mike Pence on TV makes him feel sick:

Incredibly disturbing, read at your own discretion

This was his series of tweets about the subject:
"I didn't watch the VP debate because I can't bring myself to listen to Mike Pence speak."
"In case you didn't know, Mike Pence wanted to divert all national HIV funding into "conversion therapy" for the LGBT community"
"Conversion therapy is when they take someone who's LGBT and force them to become straight by any means necessary (including shock therapy)"
"I was in conversation [sic] therapy from November 2012 to May 2013 (I was 15/16). Those are the darkest days of my life."
"The first session they sat down with my parents and I and explained their tactics. They used a 2 part system that usually takes 9 months"
"The first part (the first 6 months) they "deconstructed us as a person." Essentially teaching us to hate ourselves"
"And this wasn't just the fake "oh I hate myself" you hear on the streets. This was a deep loathing for everything you are."
"This stage was done when we were so desperate to change ourselves that we were willing to do anything."
"They explained that about 50% of their "patients" killed themselves when this process was near completion"
"I found this to be true. I met around 50 people during my time there, and 27 killed themselves. We were all between the ages of 13 and 17"
"I never finished step one, but when I left I was destroyed. I still hated myself because they didn't teach you to love yourself"
"All they taught was repression. They even encouraged suicide because "at least we wouldn't be gay anymore.""
"Every time I see Mike Pence, I have flashbacks to these horrible months. I remember what they did to us"
"I couldn't even begin to tell you the tactics they used during step one because when I try to talk about it I completely shut down"
"But it was enough to make 27 people kill themselves in 6 months. Conversion therapy is vile. Do not support this vile man"

[close]

I'd link his Twitter but it's full of swearing and most of it is now foreigners and LGBT+ people saying that they're scared to live in America now.

Anyone who supports "conversion therapy" for minors can consider themselves to have earned my eternal hatred. It is completely indefensible, the founder of one of the largest groups for "conversion therapy" has disavowed it and said he hated himself for starting it, it kills thousands and damages the rest permanently. Every scientific and medical organisation on the planet has deemed it completely unethical. And yet, in most states of America, it's still legal because some people are stupid enough to think that their religion is a good enough reason to destroy people's minds. Any parent who enters their child into "conversion therapy" should have their child taken away from them, and never be allowed to raise any other children.

But back to Pence:

Who caused a HIV outbreak in Indiana by shutting down clinics that prevent it? Mike Pence.

Who said that smoking doesn't kill you and that's all just hysteria? Mike Pence.

Who said that homosexual relationships are not of equal value to heterosexual relationships? Mike Pence. That's not disagreeing with gay marriage because of your religion, that's straight up discrimination.

He opposed the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell; a law that disallowed non-heterosexual soldiers to talk about their sexuality, and even prevented them from having relationships.

He defied a bill aimed to combat prison rape.

He sponsored a bill that would prevent children of illegal immigrants from becoming US citizens.

He refused to call the KKK deplorable.




Mike Pence is a monster.

I will not apologise for anything I have said in this post, as none of it was not factual.

[James Gryphon]

@LT Sandpaw: You having and voicing opinions is okay. Jet having and voicing opinions is okay. Your opinion differing from Jet's (and the inverse) is okay. You speaking out and saying that you disagree with Jet's opinion (and the inverse) is okay. You using a pejorative term to dismiss Jet's opinions out of hand, though, is not okay. (Also it's ad hominem, though pointing out fallacies in any conversation about politics on the internet is probably a lost cause.)

Mod: This is the case.

I was hoping that this thread might be useful for people to share their analysis of the election results, and speculate on what happens next. That said, it seems that the kerosene has run low and that all that's left to light is the gasoline, and we will not have that.

As such, this thread is being locked. If you have any questions about this decision or other things to do with the thread, feel free to contact me at your leisure.

[Matthias720]

Mod Post: I feel the need to bring this up with the recent events in this thread. There are several points of view as to who, what, where, when, why, and how this election was handled. We have a result and it's written in stone. For better or worse, the world has its due. Further discussion only moves to separate factions and drive wedges between us. This disunity is damaging not only to personal relationships, but also to the forum as a whole. Us that what you want? I hope not. This isn't the Redwall Brian Jacques envisioned, I'm sure. Let's end these arguments and move on, shall we?