Who's the better (BLANK)?

[The Skarzs]

Ferahgo, definitely. He was extremely competent, and dangerous even to a badger. Plus he died in a badass way.

[Ashleg]

I can't believe that got through the "PLEASE BAN ME NOW" Censor.

How did Swartt die again?

[The Skarzs]

Outcast of Redwall spoilers: Flung off a cliff by Sunflash.

[Ashleg]

Oh, I wasn't aware that Swartt was a Disney Villain. Good to know.

[a crumb]

Swartt is one of my favorite villains. More dynamic horde leader that underwent several phases of leadership. We saw him leading a small band and a large army. Both were interesting to see. We even got a family dynamic that's very uncommon with vermin leaders. Felt more fleshed out than most, definitely.
Which might make you think I voted for Swartt. But I didn't. Because I misclicked.

[James Gryphon]

I can't believe that got through the "PLEASE BAN ME NOW" Censor.

Fixed.

Ferahgo is much more interesting as far as the family aspect goes.

[Tam and Martin]

voted swartt becus i don't remebemr ferahrgo sorry

[Jetthebinturong]

Who's the better father? That's a tricky one. Was it the one who didn't care about his mate, gave his son to someone else and then left them both to die in a ditch? Or was it the one who was actively involved in a hypercompetitive assassination game with his son? Personally, I say Ferahgo. He actually raised Klitch to at least his teenage years, and he never actively wants Klitch dead, he only retaliates to his attacks, iirc.

Ferahgo is also my favourite character out of the two, if you weren't literally asking who the better father was.

[Ashleg]

I was asking a mix of the two, and you bring up some pretty valid points.

I voted for Feragho meself.

I can't believe that got through the "PLEASE BAN ME NOW" Censor.

Fixed.

Ferahgo is much more interesting as far as the family aspect goes.

Now it has incorrect grammar. Fix it.

[James Gryphon]

From my memory of Salamandastron, Ferahgo and Klitch never actually attack or do anything against each other. There's one or two moments where there's some violent tension (and a time where Ferahgo thought his son had something to do with an assassination attempt), but ultimately they stay on the same side throughout the entire book.

That said, Swartt is pretty much at the bottom of the list as far as vermin parents go. Besides at least being a pretty successful warlord (giving his son a verminy role model to look up to, at least until they actually met) he was a terrible father. Sawney Rath might make a more interesting comparison, or Riggu Felis.

[Ashleg]

Sawney Rath was the best father. No questions asked.

Right Felis was horrible.

[Jetthebinturong]

Swartt is literally at the bottom of the father list. Except maybe for Nimbalo's dad. We don't have an accurate way of gauging their relative horribleness.

Riggu Felis, if I recall correctly, was actually a pretty decent father for a villain. He discouraged infighting between his kids, admonished Pitru for being so bloodthirsty, and tried to encourage Jeefra to stand up to his brother and be more confident. I mean, he did all of these things in a kind of cold, villainous way, but relatively speaking he was a pretty good dad.

I literally just noticed that the Felis family is like a taken-up-to-eleven version of the Greeneyes family. Riggu is like a more evil Verdauga, Pitru is like a bratty Tsarmina, and Jeefra is like an even meeker version of Gingivere.

[Ashleg]

Jeefra was treated really poorly by Riggu, or was that just me?

[Wylder Treejumper]

Yeah, because his father thought he was a milksop. Which, actually, he kind of was (especially for a wildcat). Still, Riggu Felis was a relatively responsible father, and I was always disappointed when he was killed before Pitru.


As for Swartt, I haven't read Outcast in a long time, but I recall him as particularly callous. Ferahgo seemed much more... involved with his son.

[a crumb]

Swartt did not care about marrying Bluefen, but did to safeguard his consolidating power. He did not care about the birth of Veil, did not care when the child was lost after a battle, and did not care when he returned after many seasons. He was an extraordinarily apathetic father. But, we did get to see a vermin leader before he had a child, and in the early days of such a thing. I can't think of another example of that outside Sawney Rath...who was a lot more interested in 'his' child.