Romance in Redwall

[Maudie]

And here it is...the topic that we've all been avoiding in Redwall.

Romance.

Now, in Redwall the little romance that there is is all very downplayed. There are some that are obvious, like Martin and Rose, but others leave us wondering if it's a romance or not--Like Dandin and Mariel.

These are the romances that I think are pretty obvious: Martin and Rose, Tarquin and Rosie, Rakkety Tam and Sister Armel, Gorath and Salixa.

Did I miss any?

Also, are Redwall brothers and sisters allowed to marry or not? I feel like there were different things said in different books...

[The Skarzs]

I believe they were allowed. It would be more like a real life third order religious where they take vows of poverty and obedience, but not chastity.

As for romance. . . Heh.
You know, it wasn't really clear if Mariel and Dandin were romantically engaged.

[Maudie]

I'm not saying we should be going all sappy talking about our favorite romance and the cutest couple, etc. It's just romance is approached rather uniquely in Redwall and I think we should discuss that approach, why Brian chose it, when it worked, when it didn't work, how the approach differed from case to case, etc.

I didn't make a thread just to say which Redwall ship is your OTP, or whatever. (Although if you'd like to use this thread for those purposes there is nothing I can do to stop you)

Just thought I'd clarify.

I think Brain chose this approach because he was writing books for children of all ages and backgrounds, and because his focus was on the adventures and the characters and the world-building more than anything else. The approach sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, as illustrated by the aforementioned fact that sometimes it was unclear whether a relationship was platonic or not.

[Ashleg]

These are the romances that I think are pretty obvious: Martin and Rose, Tarquin and Rosie, Rakkety Tam and Sister Armel, Gorath and Salixa.

Did I miss any?

Mr. and Mrs. Churchmouse, Matthias and Cornflower, Gonff and Columbine...

Riggu Felis and his wife, Urgan Nagru and his...

I would list Swartt and Bluefen but she didn't exactly want to be his wife.

[Krantor the Brutal]

Jabez and Rosyqueen Stump, Yoofus and Didjety, Inbar and Grath.

[Ashleg]

I don't remember any of them...

THAT PAINTED ONE COUPLE WHERE THE HUSBAND WAS MURDERED BY TUGGA BRUSTER AND THE WIFE AVENGED HIM WAS PRETTY COOL.

[MeadowR]

I think Brain chose this approach because he was writing books for children of all ages and backgrounds, and because his focus was on the adventures and the characters and the world-building more than anything else.

That's basically how I see it. And he might've thought that the target age wouldn't be too interested in a more developed romance -- and to generalise a tad -- especially the male readers.

I've not been bothered about the lack of romance. Nevertheless, I have thought about it a few times and perhaps a more developed one could have been interesting in at least one book.

[Ashleg]

Robin Jarvis does this really well in the Deptford Mice series. While maintaining focus on the action and plot, he allowed the main character to get herself tangled up in a really complicated romance with one of the heroes--without making it the center story.

So while the mice are off fighting evil and the rats are concocting spells, there is still something going on in the background.

I think it would work for Redwall.

[The Skarzs]

It seems like a decent guideline for stories not focused on the relationships.

Lord of the Rings did it with Eowen and Feamir, introducing the romance slightly, then giving it a conclusion/future at the end to finalize it.
Magic Kingdom For Sale: SOLD did something similar. The romance was a little more present since the one character insisted they were meant for each other, and while it was clear they wanted it, it wasn't the focus of the story. More of an always-present connection until the end of the book where they were married.

[Madison]

I think the strength in the Dandin/Mariel dynamic is that it's never said exactly what it is. Could be romantic or more like a regular friendship. I think the latter.

The Redwall MUCK has romance crop up sometimes, being essentially a Redwall soap opera in a few ways. Sometimes it's really soppy, sometimes not.

[Captain Tammo]

I used to think Tiria and Leatho were something, but after reading High Rhulain again, it looks like Leatho is much, much older than Tiria (in my head I think of the ages as 16 or 17 vs. 30 or so).

I guess Brian never had romance at the center of his stories because that just wasn't what he wanted the focus to be. The few hints he drops here and there are enough to keep the reader satisfied for the most part. Though too much romance can definitely spoil the story and take away from the main conflict.

[The Skarzs]

Indeed. Also, with the Tiria and Leatho thing, they are two different species.

[MeadowR]

Adding a little romance was one thing, but different species romance was not going to happen here!

[Ashleg]

What's wrong with that? They're both otters.

A mouse and a squirrel can be in love, they just can't have children.

[The Skarzs]

I, uh, suppose it would be the equivalent of being gay. . .