Least Favourite Hero

[Vilu Daskar]

Buckler and Tammo are the but Hares

[Ungatt Trunn]

Buckler and Tammo are the but Hares

Yea, they are probubly my favourite Hares as well.

[Shadowed One]

Yes the hares are one of my favorite species, my favorite being otters.

[Tam and Martin]

Those are my favorites too!

[Martin the warrior]

I didn't like Mattimeo he was "weak" in my opinion and he was some what of a brat.

[Tam and Martin]

The same with me

[Maudie]

Hey, guys you should be more nicer! I know a few people named Sue...
I must say my least favorite hero was probably Trisscar Swordmaid. She actually used to be my favorite but then I reread Triss. I think she was something of a Sue.

[CrazyPug37]

I didn't like Mattimeo he was "weak" in my opinion and he was some what of a brat.

I've got to agree with you on that.

[Blazemane]

I knew I shouldn't have read this thread. It hurts to think about why you don't like particular aspects of stories that you know you like as complete units...

And I think I'm basically with Osu on this:

As a rule, I love every character for whatever reason.

Well, o.k. I don't love every character, but I don't really have a profound dislike for any of them, either. With that said, so long as I'm here... yeah... Tiria Wildlough. Hmm. A lot of it isn't even so much her fault as a character; she just doesn't seem to get to be the initiator of a lot of things.

"Hey, dad, I need to get to an island."

"Yep. Let me take you to Log-a-log."

"Hey, Tiria; nice sling!"

"Thanks, Log-a-log!"

"Let me take you to Blandale Frunk..."

"Sure!"

"Who are you, miss otter?"

"Well, to be fair... who are you... at least, at the moment?"

"I'm, uh... Heh. I guess I'll be an otter, too."

"Nifty."

"Let me take you to Mandoral High Peak."

"Sweet!"

"Oh. It's you."

"What do you mean, lord Mandoral?"

"Well, you see, seasons ago, Urthwyte finished this set of armor for an otter queen, and it's been waiting for her successor to come take it."

"Oh, o.k."

"Blanedale, will you take her to her ancestrial Holt?"

"Who's Blanedale? Er... Yes!"

"Hey! Our queen's here! And look, our enemy's wife is burning down the castle for us!"

"YYYAAAAAAAY!"

"Er... what about that sea monster who lives here?"

"Don't worry, Tiria; I've got this! But first, let me feed the rest of the cat's army to him..."

"That's really not neces... oh, poor Blanedale."

I enjoyed High Rhulian, as I've enjoyed every Redwall book. And I distinctly remember after I finished with it feeling bummed because the story was over and there was nothing more for me to do with it. And I've noticed that a great number of users on here love the book and its central character. I'm a bit jealous, because I prefer to enjoy things than to not. But for all of that, I feel like I was picking up on the things I wasn't sure about with Tiria even while I was reading the story.

And... partially to assure everyone that I think they have the right to enjoy whichever characters they choose, and partly because my jaw drops a little lower every time I read somebody bringing him up in here--

I am a huge fan of Deyna the Taggerung. I understand he has a lot of the same qualities that people knock Tiria for, but for me, a lot of Deyna's awesomeness comes from the context of the story he's in, much like a lot of my problems with Tiria come from the context of her story.

Brian Jacques sets up in Taggerung something unusual for his books. The central (in a sense) villain gets exactly what he wants from the very beginning of the story. Sawney Rath comes by Redwall with only one, small purpose: to steal Deyna. And he gets Deyna.

The entire rest of the story is focused on fixing what got broken when he did that. And, from Jacques' exploration of Filorn and Mhera (and Cregga, guiding them through), I think he shows that what Sawney Rath did wasn't actually "small" at all. So the entire book is incredibly intimate, small-scale, personal. A family gets hurt--deeply hurt. Now, how do they move on?

So, I think the fact that Deyna knows right from wrong in spite of where he grew up was not meant to make Jacques' storytelling job easier ("How do I get Deyna out of the vermin band?... oh... he's just... born that way...") but was meant to stress something about the nature of good itself. Jacques believed profoundly that good was always set to win.

It can be argued quite reasonably, of course, that good could have won later, after Deyna struggled for chapters and chapters with it. But from my perspective, a lot of it comes down to the fact that Sawney Rath wanted Deyna to commit something as pitch black as murder--if Deyna had gone down that path, good might have still won in him eventually, but it would have been so... tarnished. And that would have been fine and could have been written into wonderful explorations of good vs. evil in other stories, but I really don't think that was Jacques' style, ever. I feel like... he would have seen Deyna committing murder as a huge loss.

And yet again, it could seem incredibly convenient, then, that Jacques chose to put the choice of "murder or no murder" in his character's path. So it's not too swift for Deyna to choose not to commit murder, but his being presented with that choice happens far too early in the story. I would say to this that Brian Jacques had already been a bit lenient in the other direction. What I mean is, he writes that Deyna grew up with Sawney's vermin band for an entire 15 seasons, and within his story, he already delays the choice of murder in those 15 seasons when he explicitly writes out that "the seasons had been good and relatively peaceful, with hardly any killing raids or tribal strife." I think the indication is (probably) that whatever few killing raids did happen, Deyna must have been too young to kill in them anyways.

If the seasons had not been so peaceful (uncharacteristically peaceful?), then Deyna would have been forced to make that choice even sooner.

I should also point out that Brian Jacques' choice to write Deyna as, in a sense, inherently good does show him to be consistent with his own philosophy of character. Deyna is an opposite version of Veil--where Deyna was born to Redwallers and raised by vermin, Veil was born to vermin and raised by Redwallers. And Veil ends up choosing a very dark path. In fact, it's the crossroads of murder again. Deyna throws himself out of the Juskarath when he won't kill. Veil gets kicked out Redwall when he tries to kill.

As for the rest... Deyna's incredible strength, fighting ability and reflexes... it is all very much a matter of opinion, and I understand where readers think that he is overpowered. I see it like this:

Deyna is taught from birth how to fight and to track--and not just like a regular vermin, but as the clan's specialized warrior. Deyna's fighting ability was given to him very deliberately.

As for strength and reflexes, there are explanations for these. He may be the inheritor of a very strong genetic line. I can imagine he had the desire to work at building his strength and his reflexes much like he would have had to have practiced anything else (like the fighting abilities). And it might also have been really important that he was told what he was going to be capable of growing up. Deyna never really had any reason to doubt himself.

But approaching this from a character-writing perspective, Deyna's capabilities seem to me to be in line with the same sort of ideas that put Martin the mouse drowning Tsarmina the cat or Rakkety Tam the squirrel beheading Gulo the wolverine. It's... the power of "good" again, I think. Deyna's father was murdered, he was ripped from his family, and his sister and mother were left alone wondering if he and Rillflag weren't both dead. So, if the whole drive of the novel from that point on is to fix that one tragedy, then there wasn't going to be a thing in all of Mossflower that could stop Deyna from getting back to where he belonged.

Which also means that, for me, Deyna's admittedly incredible talents come off as a triumph rather than poor writing. If he and his family were going to be so badly hurt, then there does seem to have been something very good that came out of it. Deyna came out stronger than he probably ever would have if grew up at the Abbey; he becomes a powerful warrior through the experience of tragedy. And that works for me. That's partly why I love that Brian Jacques almost hyper-extended the novel with the introduction of Ruggan Bor. As soon as Deyna is restored to his family, he is called to lead Redwall Abbey against another, powerful threat. ...Not that I mind Russano coming up with the Long Patrol just as things are about to get ugly.

And it's not just Deyna who comes out of tragedy better! Mhera leans on Cregga, and Cregga's first piece of advice for getting through her sorrow is to help her mother. It's also really interesting that Filorn totally picks up on the fact that Mhera's trying to be strong for her, and she tries to stay strong back by joining her in setting up a massive feast for everyone. And it works for everyone else--they love the feast. But Mhera and Filorn were the ones who were actually hurting, and they both break down soon enough, and Cregga comes to them again, and from that point on, they seem to live with their burden. How much of the personality we see in Mhera from that point on was born in her and how much she learns instead by standing through suffering I can't say for sure. But whatever the case, she does eventually grow up to be the Abbess that Redwall was missing before she was ever even born. Meanwhile, Filorn becomes a subtle leader in her own right. She eases tensions in the Abbey, especially where Boorab is concerned, and she puts herself in a position where she could probably take over the kitchens if she needed to. And, near the end, when Deyna finally comes back to the Abbey wounded, it is she who sees him for who he actually is.

If it isn't obvious, I flipping love this book. I think it was one of Brian Jacques' most powerful statements on his belief in the absolute, unstoppable... well, power, of good over evil. Deyna could not be kept from his family. As such, I can't really dislike Deyna.

Comparing my "assessment" of Tiria with my opinion on Deyna, yes--I think this is all somewhat subjective. And I don't want to detract from those who enjoy Tiria's character--like I said, I envy you all, because I prefer to enjoy things. And I'm betting someone could defend her the same way I've defended Deyna.

But I did want to get my opinion out there.

Now... somebody mentioned not liking Sunflash the Mace, either. That's your right, that's your right. But maybe that's a discussion for another day...

[Redwallfan7]

I didn't like Mattimeo he was "weak" in my opinion and he was some what of a brat.

Agreed. I didn't care for him in the t.v series. In the book, he's just ok to me, but I don't pay attention to him in the book.

[Maudie]

I liked Matti but he didn't deserve it until he grew up. I think Tess, Cheek, and Jess were the best characters in Mattimeo.

[CrazyPug37]

Orlando the Axe was my personal favorite, but I also liked Tim the mouse.

[Redwallfan7]

I liked Matti but he didn't deserve it until he grew up. I think Tess, Cheek, and Jess were the best characters in Mattimeo.

Great choices. I really like them too

[Kitsune]

I don't really like a character that much if they're a Mary Sue.

[JangoCoolguy]

From the books I've read;

Triss
When you're title character feels more like a supporting character, that's a problem...

Tiria
When the main character isn't as likable or interesting as everyone else in the story that's also a problem!

Gorath
I swear, the starring Badgers seemed to get worse... 

And while I've yet to read "Pearls of Lutra" (though I SO intend to), Martin 2 doesn't sound very good.