Least Favourite Hero

[Ungatt Trunn]

I don't really like a character that much if they're a Mary Sue.

Please, NOEBODY say that Laterose was Mary Sue...

But she was!

But she SO HECKN' wasn't! What was one fact about Rose that made her a Mary Sue?

-Overly beautiful.
-Typical tragic death of the beautiful love interest.
-Can charm bees (of all creatures!) with her perfect singing.
-Can talk to birds when nobody else can and they automatically obey her.

Seriously, though, that thing with the bees has always bothered me. Really, Brian?!

It never said that Rose was overly beautiful. Here death wasn't intended for a "beautiful love intrest" because BJ would never put something that mature in a Redwall storie. Sure, the whole thing about Rose singing to the bees was pretty ridiculous, but the section were Rose started talking to that bird never stated the Rose was the only person who could talk to birds and make them obey her.

[Dannflower Reguba]

I think that our dear friend Doogy is taking a few too many, "facts," from the TV version. The book doesn't mention Rose's appearance very much, her death was frighteningly sudden and unpredictable (though I still don't believe in her, "death."  ) more than typical. The bee thing is a little far fetched, but bees ARE calmed by smoke, so why not singing? When did Rose talk to a bird?

[Ungatt Trunn]

I think that our dear friend Doogy is taking a few too many, "facts," from the TV version. The book doesn't mention Rose's appearance very much, her death was frighteningly sudden and unpredictable (though I still don't believe in her, "death."  ) more than typical. The bee thing is a little far fetched, but bees ARE calmed by smoke, so why not singing? When did Rose talk to a bird?

When they [Martin and Co] were captured by those lizards, Rose talked to a Wren (?) to go get help from the warden.

In the book, it is true that Rose is never mentioned as "beautiful". Even in the TV series, she dosn't look that nice.

[WildDoogyPlumm]

I think that our dear friend Doogy is taking a few too many, "facts," from the TV version. The book doesn't mention Rose's appearance very much, her death was frighteningly sudden and unpredictable (though I still don't believe in her, "death."  ) more than typical. The bee thing is a little far fetched, but bees ARE calmed by smoke, so why not singing? When did Rose talk to a bird?

When they [Martin and Co] were captured by those lizards, Rose talked to a Wren (?) to go get help from the warden.

In the book, it is true that Rose is never mentioned as "beautiful". Even in the TV series, she dosn't look that nice.

"[Martin] stared silently into the most gentle hazel eyes that ever reflected starlight, lost for words as a quiet smile spread over the mousemaid's serene features." (Chpt 7)
I will admit that maybe I'm taking this too far - I just really don't like Rose.  And I'll also admit that the above passage is a bit biased because it's through Martin's lovestruck eyes.

Actually, the bird is a dipper. But same difference. 

[Ungatt Trunn]

I think that our dear friend Doogy is taking a few too many, "facts," from the TV version. The book doesn't mention Rose's appearance very much, her death was frighteningly sudden and unpredictable (though I still don't believe in her, "death."  ) more than typical. The bee thing is a little far fetched, but bees ARE calmed by smoke, so why not singing? When did Rose talk to a bird?

When they [Martin and Co] were captured by those lizards, Rose talked to a Wren (?) to go get help from the warden.

In the book, it is true that Rose is never mentioned as "beautiful". Even in the TV series, she dosn't look that nice.

"[Martin] stared silently into the most gentle hazel eyes that ever reflected starlight, lost for words as a quiet smile spread over the mousemaid's serene features." (Chpt 7)
I will admit that maybe I'm taking this too far - I just really don't like Rose.  And I'll also admit that the above passage is a bit biased because it's through Martin's lovestruck eyes.

Actually, the bird is a dipper. But same difference. 

Well, feelings for a certain person change from person to person. It is sorta obviouse that Martin liked Rose, but that passage is probably just one person's feelings.

[Dannflower Reguba]

Wow, for the life of me I just can't remember her talking to a bird.  Besides, pretty much every bird in the series was able to be talked to and even talk back anyway, so why should Rose not be allowed to talk to one?

Also, take notice of the adjectives, and just what they are describing. First he goes for the eyes, not that big of a deal, eyes are pretty awesome by nature anyway.  And secondly, the describing word used with features is, "serene." Serene means something more along the lines of peaceful or graceful than they do Beautiful or pretty. Granted, they do imply a certain since of beauty, but its not the, "Oh my gosh she's gorgeous!" Kind of thing. IN CONCLUSION ( so you can skip the gigantic explanation if you don't like reading that stuff  ): The book doesn't truly mention whether or not  Rose is pretty, it just gives some basis to believe that she's lovable, the rest is filled in by the imagination.

Side Note: And we only wishing the best for Martin tend to fill in the gap with something that we view as Beautiful. 

[WildDoogyPlumm]

The weird thing with this bird was, Rose pretty much translated its speech to everyone else, and Martin had to ask her if she could understand it. Implying that he and the others couldn't. It's in chapter 21, just so you know.

[Ungatt Trunn]

The weird thing with this bird was, Rose pretty much translated its speech to everyone else, and Martin had to ask her if she could understand it. Implying that he and the others couldn't. It's in chapter 21, just so you know.

I'll check that chapter next time I go to the library, just to make sure...

[Dannflower Reguba]

Read it.

It's just because Rose was the only one that could here him. She literally told them that he was saying, "Ganna aitcha." (gonna eat you) And then she was the one that guessed at what he was saying first.

That's not at all a case of Mary Sueism, it's just a matter of proximity. 

[Ungatt Trunn]

Read it.

It's just because Rose was the only one that could here him. She literally told them that he was saying, "Ganna aitcha." (gonna eat you) And then she was the one that guessed at what he was saying first.

That's not at all a case of Mary Sueism, it's just a matter of proximity. 

My point exactly. It can be considered just as Mary-Suish as some of Cornflower's actions were, and Cornflower wasn't a Mary Sue at all!

[Dannflower Reguba]

Read it.

It's just because Rose was the only one that could here him. She literally told them that he was saying, "Ganna aitcha." (gonna eat you) And then she was the one that guessed at what he was saying first.

That's not at all a case of Mary Sueism, it's just a matter of proximity.  

My point exactly. It can be considered just as Mary-Suish as some of Cornflower's actions were, and Cornflower wasn't a Mary Sue at all!

*Realizes own post was actually about Tess*  oops, sorry.

I kind of confused Cornflower with Tess.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Read it.

It's just because Rose was the only one that could here him. She literally told them that he was saying, "Ganna aitcha." (gonna eat you) And then she was the one that guessed at what he was saying first.

That's not at all a case of Mary Sueism, it's just a matter of proximity.  

My point exactly. It can be considered just as Mary-Suish as some of Cornflower's actions were, and Cornflower wasn't a Mary Sue at all!

*Realizes own post was actually about Tess*  oops, sorry.

I kind of confused Cornflower with Tess.

Ach...

[General Ironbeak]

I never liked Tammo. I'm sorry, I just didn't. I guess hares weren't made to be protagonists.

[Gonff the Mousethief]

for me, it was tansy. SHE WAS SOOOO ANNOYING

[TW]

I don't really like a character that much if they're a Mary Sue.

Please, NOEBODY say that Laterose was Mary Sue...

But she was!

But she SO HECKN' wasn't! What was one fact about Rose that made her a Mary Sue?

-Overly beautiful.
-Typical tragic death of the beautiful love interest.
-Can charm bees (of all creatures!) with her perfect singing.
-Can talk to birds when nobody else can and they automatically obey her.

Seriously, though, that thing with the bees has always bothered me. Really, Brian?!

It never said that Rose was overly beautiful. Here death wasn't intended for a "beautiful love intrest" because BJ would never put something that mature in a Redwall storie. Sure, the whole thing about Rose singing to the bees was pretty ridiculous, but the section were Rose started talking to that bird never stated the Rose was the only person who could talk to birds and make them obey her.

I don't usually post when I see these least favorite topics because I don't understand the point of complaining about things I like, but I saw this and just wanted to point out that singing creatures to sleep is pretty common in fiction. Think about Fluffy from Harry Potter (which is a reference itself to Orpheus and Cerberus), Tom Bombadil sings Old Man Willow to sleep in The Lord of the Rings, and I just got into Doctor Who and the Christmas Carol episode featured a girl whose voice was the right pitch to resonate with the ice crystals in the air to calm the Fish.