DC Thread

[Jetthebinturong]

This is a thread for discussing DC comics and associated properties.

So Young Justice season 3.
You can immediately tell how much Cartoon Network was holding them back from going as dark as they wanted, however I feel like in some scenes they're being dark just because they can now, rather than for any narrative reason. So that's both a pro and a con of the new series.

Those are all my non-spoilery thoughts really. But before I get into spoilers, @The Skarzs have you watched all six episodes?

[The Skarzs]

Yes, I have. I'll post anything spoiler-y in a. . . spoiler.

Dark stuff

I feel Halo didn't need to die as often as she did (or as often as they probably will make her do). The first time with Plasmid or whatever his name was, yeah, I get it, it made Black Lightning snap out of his funk a bit. But when her neck got snapped, that seemed unnecessary.
Plasmid getting shot, while sad and dark, seemed like the thing a scared farmer would probably do.

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One thing that does rub me the wrong way a bit is the pacing in some of the plots. The whole chase with the Bowhunter Security is a bit overdone, with what seems like too much action for what it was. Then there were parts in it that same episode that we're too slow. Overall it was good and I got some laughs out of it, but it wasn't my favorite episode.

[Jetthebinturong]

More Dark Stuff and Spoilers

Yeah Halo's deaths are a little too numerous. I also felt like Failsafe Omega was quite gratuitous. It would be better if the protagonists could actually save the kids for once. This much child death makes me uncomfortable. It feels like a child has died in every single episode so far.

For the rest of the things I want to talk about, I'm going to work my way up to the most important.

Cool thing I wanted to note: The assassin in episode one. He smirks when he sees the guards, we think because he knows he can beat them. But I think he was actually smirking because he saw Bedlam with them and presumed he could get away. Adding another layer to his suprised look when Bedlam shoots him.

Is Halo a new god? Is that why she has a special relationship with Sphere, and why Sphere can heal her? She was human before she died, but I don't think she is anymore.

Then there's Ra's al Ghul. No longer head of the League of Shadows. That's surprising enough. But no longer a member of the Light? Then who's replaced him in those positions? I get the feeling the answer to both of those is Deathstroke. Hopefully without his weird ponytail from season two.

Then there's that woman with the baby on the island. Was that Talia al Ghul and Damian Wayne? Because I think that was Talia al Ghul and Damian Wayne. Was that why Ra's left the Shadows? To help Talia raise Damian? And of course, to look after his other young pupil.

Then there's the big one. You know throughout the whole fight I was focused on the third assassin there. No name, or explanation about who he was, but I loved his awesome look and wanted to know more about him. Then "Grayson." AND HE WAS WEARING A RED HOOD THE ENTIRE TIME! How did I not realise that was Jason Todd? Hope we get a flashback episode about him, since we skipped straight from Dick being Robin in season one to Jason dead and Tim Robin in season two. Also I'm disappointed he didn't have that white streak in his hair, since that's his iconic look. But maybe he gets that later , I don't know much about his comics (though I would expect that, like his green eyes, he got it from his resurrection in the Lazarus Pit). I hope he keeps his current costume for at least a little while, because while I like his classic look, I prefer this one.

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[The Skarzs]

You have way more theories than I do. XD

Spoiler

You're probably right about the kid deaths. But I guess that's what DC is going for nowadays: Being dark. Still, we'll see where it goes. It's an interesting plot point having meta humans being weaponized/enslaved. It's like a way Marvel never thought of to use their mutants.

I got that it was Jason as soon as he said Grayson. I'm curious if and how they're going to tie this into the movies.

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[Jetthebinturong]

Eh MARVEL has a few cases of enslaved mutants. In X2: X-Men United, William Striker brainwashes his own son, Nightcrawler, and Magneto into doing his bidding. But his ultimate goal is to kill all mutants, not weaponise them.

Spoiler

It won't tie into the movies. YJ is it's own separate thing.

Also I just noticed something. In episode four, when Dick recruits the Harpers to take on a trafficking ring, Jim Harper is in his Guardian costume. But in season two, Jim quit being Guardian to figure himself out, and while he was away, Mal Duncan took up the role. So what happened to Mal and why is Jim Guardian again?

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[The Skarzs]

What do you think of the DC animated movies? I really like them a lot (more than almost all the live action ones). The long string of ones that tie together, or at least are all in the same continuity, have all been fun, with enough serious parts and funny parts to make them interesting.

[Jetthebinturong]

I haven't watched any of them yet.

[The Skarzs]

Oh? Okay. If you ever get the chance to, they're good.

[Jetthebinturong]

So the next three episodes of Young Justice aired.

Episode seven was... decent. Actually no. It was subpar. Just really disjointed and I disliked the main plot elements.

Spoiler

They killed off Starro in a single episode. Even though Starro was on Earth and a huge part of season one. I guess there are multiple Starros? They didn't even include the Faceless Hunter, Starro's servant. They barely even established Starro as an actual threat, since you never believed Vandal would lose to it. And now I hate Vandal Savage as a person. Joy.

The protagonists' section was fun and cute though.

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On to episode eight.

Episode eight was much better. Still disjointed, but clearly purposefully so. It was very intriguing.

Spoiler

I really didn't expect for all the team leaders to be working together. That completely blindsided me. It was cool to see Tim's team in action but I am very intrigued to see who Orphan is. I love Spoiler and Tim individually, but haven't seen enough about Arrowette to make a judgement.

I'm not fond of what seems to be a developing romance between Halo and Brion. They lack any real chemistry, and things are progressing way too fast. But romance has never been a strong suit for this series. The only one that actually worked, imo, was Wally and Artemis.

On a minor note, I hate Sportsmaster's new design and everything about Barry Allen except his Flash costume.

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And finally episode nine.

Episode nine was great. So it seems episode seven was a minor blip in quality not reflective of the series going forward.

Spoiler

It was great to see the Outsiders in action for a proper-length sequence, and they managed to drive off Lobo, which I understand is no mean feat. Also I don't like Lobo in this series, and if this is reflective of his comic personality, I don't know why anyone does.

I'm interested to see why Granny Goodness and Glorious Gordon Godfrey are pretending to be at odds when they're both Apokaliptan agents, I suppose they have a plot going forward.

But my main takeaway from this episode is yes, I was right that Deathstroke took Ra's place on the Light, but Lady Shiva runs the League of Shadows. Interestingly, the Brain has been replaced by Ultra-Humanite, for a reason that probably won't be explained. And now Ocean Master is dead, proving we will never know why he was kicked off the Light in between seasons one and two, which is the only thing I legitimately hate about this series.

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[The Skarzs]

Watched them. I agree with you on several and eight. You know what episode seven felt like? A fan fiction! I felt like I was watching a fan fiction made into an episode. There was too much there that could have been told better at a later time, or hinted at, but instead it was. . . That. Poor dialogue, disjointed timing, too many things happening at once. . .

[Jetthebinturong]

Yeah I get that.

Also I wanna bring up something Wonder Woman said in episode eight.

Spoiler

So she said the anti-Light were coordinating six different teams.
What teams are those?
The Justice League
The Team
The Outsiders
and Batman Incorporated are the only ones I can think of.

It could be
The Justice League (EARTH)
The Justice League (SPACE)
The Team
The Outsiders
Batman Inc.
and Tim Drake's team, I guess.

Also who's on which teams at this point?
JL (E) - Aquaman, Steel, Black Canary, Flash, Shazam/Captain Marvel, Rocket, Icon (?), Red Tornado, Doctor Fate, Zatanna, and that's all I can think of.
JL (S) - Wonder Woman, Superman Martian Manhunter, Ice, Fire (?), Icon (?), Adam Strange and Alanna. Doesn't seem like enough.
The Team - M'gann, Kid Flash, Blue Beetle, Wondergirl, Thirteen, Static, anyone else?
The Outsiders - Nightwing, Superboy, Black Lightning, Tigress, Halo, Geo-Force, Forager. That's easy enough.
Batman Inc. - Batman, Green Arrow, Batwoman, Katana, Hardware and Plastic Man.
Tim's team - Robin, Spoiler, Arrowette, and Orphan.

Am I missing anyone?

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[Jetthebinturong]

So I've watched the new batch of episodes. Episode ten was pretty fun. Nothing groundbreaking, but fun.

Spoiler

But it has brought to my attention a problem with the show that I hoped would go away which seems like it's here to stay. Expositional dialogue that doesn't need to be there. Steel explains to Silas Stone that he's been instructed with examining a Fatherbox. Yes, Steel, he knows that. And then Deathstroke and Katana talk about their positions unnecessarily just so Batman can hear it. It's not the first time this has happened, but I've given it a pass previously. This was just a particularly annoying instance.

Nothing much happened on the Outsiders side of things, except some more chemistryless romance between Violet and Brion. Good to see Forager's steadily growing back his shell.

It was nice to see the set-up for Cyborg's arc. I didn't know much about him so it was nice to see something of his backstory and a different side of his personality. In other things I've seen, Victor has been something of a snarkster, whereas in this he's rather straight-faced and stoic. And I had no idea about his strained family situation.

On the Batman Inc. side, it was nice to see Bane again. I like Deathstroke's new design, but I don't think his voice particularly suits him. It was good to see a little of Lady Shiva since I don't know much about her. The action scenes were awesome. I'm a little disappointed that they just dropped Metamorpho on us with no explanation, since he's supposed to be an Outsider later on. I really didn't like that Bane attacked Batman in a rage. Bane's smarter than that. And I don't like that his mask doesn't cover the back of his head. The rest of his design is cool though.

The Roy and Jade stuff was good. Jade's one of my favourite characters in the show, and it's good to see more of her. It's sad to see her push her loved ones away because she thinks she doesn't deserve them (and I mean, she's kind of right. She is a murderer) and I hope that her arc pays off by the end of this season.

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Episode eleven... happened WAY too early. Don't get me wrong it was a great episode. But the events with Victor's arc just happened too soon. We literally just met him last episode.

Spoiler

Also I find it really difficult to feel sympathy for Silas considering the way he handled that argument. Sure he obviously loves his son, and he was actually going to try towards the end, but we never got to see what he was going to say, which takes away from that. And yes I think Victor is being a little too harsh, considering he just almost died and both of them need consoling, but I find his anger to be totally justified and understandable.

And the Halo is a Motherbox theory is basically confirmed now.

I wonder about Harper Roe. Is she anyone important? She looks like Livewire, but I don't think she is. I'm not going to look it up, I'm just asking rhetorical questions I guess.

The Brion and Nightwing stuff was cool. I don't think Brion should be saying he's okay yet though. The kid literally just lost his parents and was exiled from his country. Nightwing of all people should understand that grief doesn't get better that quickly. When Nightwing asked if he was okay I was expecting him to say no, which would be a more satisfying arc of being honest about his feelings rather than externalising them. Instead it was some meaningless platitude about focusing on the future instead of the past. Yes, that's a good message. But not like a few days after his parents were violently assassinated and he was exiled from his home country and cut off from his last remaining blood relative, who is also his twin brother. I guess what I'm saying is the arc was well-handled, I just think they got what the arc should have been wrong.

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I loved episode twelve completely. I don't really have anything else to say about it. I loved how deep an insight into Garfield's character we got, which has only been hinted at in prior material. He's one of my favourite characters.

Spoiler

Though I would like to know how you read the whole "two moms" thing. Because I know for a fact that Marie Logan was a lesbian (hence why Queen Bee was able to make her kill herself (and yes, WoG says that she was gay, not bi or anything else)) and that means that Rita was likely some kind of romantic partner. However, I don't know how that reads to someone who hasn't got that outside knowledge. I can't get mad at the episode for plausible deniability on the whole "Marie was gay" front (they never outright state it) because I don't know how deniable that is. So I want to know how that reads to someone who didn't know. I'm not interested in getting into a debate about whether it's appropriate or not, just whether you read the relationship between Marie and Rita as romantic.

Though if you already knew Marie was gay, this question is rendered completely moot.

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Episode thirteen was also completely fantastic.

Spoiler

I love how Connor and Cameron are still on friendly terms even though they're enemies. I've always been disappointed that Junior didn't get a redemption arc, but at least the development he did get wasn't thrown away.

Also I totally knew that Terra was going to be an actual bad guy, not just a slave.

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And now there's no more episodes until June. Still a strong end to the first half of the season, and I'm not desperately hungry for more.

[The Skarzs]

Spoiler

Yeah, the expositional dialogue is a problem. It's like seeing the "don't tell, show" which can be fixed using dialogue, and then going to the extreme.
I was also going to mention the romance. I think the only romance I'm really okay with is Megan and Connor. I was thinking about this today, and I feel like Brion would be too upset for a romance like that. It would also be good writing, I think, going along with him being like Connor with his anger, that he might be a bit like him in the way that Connor acted toward Megan (a bit oblivious) in season one, at least for a while.

I actually liked episode eleven more than twelve. I didn't really like going that deep into a character who really wasn't a huge part in the previous seasons and I had no invested interest in him. (Give me Beetle back, or at least Impulse.)
Victor was like that in Justice League: War. There is another iteration of how he became Cyborg there, and it's pretty good. All the DC animated movies are good, if you get a chance to watch them.

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[Jetthebinturong]

Bart ain't Impulse anymore. He's Kid Flash now.

I always knew Beast Boy was meant to be an important character this season, and I enjoy this version of him more than in season 2. Maybe because he's more mature now, or maybe because he has the same voice actor is the Teen Titans Beast Boy. Bart and Jaime are my favourite characters in the series though, and I do wish we got more of them.

Episode twelve was definitely my favourite so far. If I were to rank them, it'd be:
11. Episode 7: Evolution
10. Episode 5: Away Mission
9. Episode 9: Home Fires (yeah I've really changed my opinion on this one. It's still fun, but not as great as I thought)
8. Episode 10: Exceptional Human Beings
7. Episode 4: Private Security
6. Episode 11: Another Freak
5. Episode 1/2/3: Princes All/Royal We/Eminent Threat
4. Episode 8: Triptych
3. Episode 6: Rescue Op
2. Episode 13: True Heroes
1. Episode 12: Nightmare Monkeys

Also I just realised the last episode of this season is called Nevermore. Raven/Trigon main arc for season four? Or maybe they'll introduce her earlier in the season and that episode will be the culmination of her arc.

[The Skarzs]

Bart ain't Impulse anymore. He's Kid Flash now.

I know, but you knew what I meant.

Episode thirteen was good. Threw some stuff in the mix I wasn't expecting (Psimon and Devastation are a couple? Seriously? XD), lots going on to create tension, and a good ending. Can't wait for the second half.