Animal stereotypes

[Blademaster]

I was always a little disappointed because there was never any mouse, squirrel, mole, hedgehog, shrew or badger villains and no rat, ferret, weasel, wildcat, stoat or fox heroes. I know there might be a few exceptions but... you know.

[Mad Maudie]

yeah it would be cool to have a hero Ferret but there was Gingevere (Spelling?)

[Skipper]

i feel that its fine the way it is, why are you dissapointeed?

[Bragoon]

Mr. Jacques was always very clear about the differences between good beasts and vermin.  There may have been mean-spirited animals (take the water vole in Eulalia for example), and some vermin who lived out more peaceful lives (in The Bellmaker, there was a vermin who became a boat-builder and visited the Abbey frequently), but for the most part he kept to black and white for his characters.

On a whole, I think it was a good choice, since it could be confusing not knowing who to trust and when someone might not be sincere, and I don't think that's the kind of story he meant Redwall to be.


Gingivere was a little different though.  Gingivere was created for the first book, and Mr. Jacques hadn't yet formed his 'ideal' world yet.  Even so, Gingivere's personality fits closer to the vermin in The Bellmaker, and to some degree the Taggerung (Dayna) - he had seen cruelty, and didn't want any part of it.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

There's some old discussions from July and August in these two topics that if you haven't and are interested, might prove a rewarding read. Redwall's Grey Characters and Villains that weren't really villains.
This thread is open of course for continuing discussion.

[Sheep-From-The-Red-Hill]

I thought it was fine until the fifth book that is. I found the "vermin are born evil concept" extremely boring and unreasonable, I felt he should have at least had some sort of explanation for it (example vermin were poor farmers and had to rely on raids to feed themselves).

It also made the characterization extremely predictable if not outright annoying.

Badgers=Brave/Strong/Nice

Shrew=Brave/Strong/Nice

Mouse=Brave/Strong/Nice

Otters=Brave/Strong/Nice

Rats=Ugly/Cowardly/Evil

Stoats=Ugly/Cowardly/Evil

Ferrets=Ugly/Cowardly/Evil


You get the point.

[Mad Maudie]

yeah i still wish there was a good guy ferret oh and Sorry Taggerung_of_Redwall

[Melody]

not all of the shrew were brave or nice.

Plus I always considered Veil sixclaw from outcast of redwall to be a hero.

[Mad Maudie]

Plus I always considered Veil sixclaw from outcast of redwall to be a hero.

Yes i loved him

[Tiria Wildlough]

Did you need to put that many s?

[Skipper]

she probably did.
I pesonally think it was fine the way it was set up, and not all the species had the same personality

[Muse]

See, Jacques once said,(not verbatum), that they weren't bad because they were vermin, but they were vermin BECAUSE they were bad. 

[Blademaster]

I get all of your points but I just think a super evil Badger horde leader would be awsome.     

[Tiria Wildlough]

I think that Brian Jacques knew what he was doing. The animal stereotypes are so that when you read about how a stoat comes along, you think 'Ooh, here comes trouble'. That's what makes the book exciting.

[Ceteruler]

I noticed in those two links that

DINGEYE
and
THURA

were not really mentioned.
They might have killed... whats-his-face, but on accident.