Rose (yes, Rose again): Did she actually die?

Dannflower Reguba · July 10, 2012, 04:40:12 PM

NO!!!
Whoopsie
Sorry for shouting, hope your ears survived.

Now to be on topic, I know there are alot of Rose related topics, but this one is solely for the discussion of her life or death... To me it is rather obvious.. Of course not! Being thrown into a wall by a tired, and distracted stoat is NOT going to kill such a resilient mouse!

The book NEVER stated she was dead, it IMPLIED that she was... But never SAID so. And after all the mess ups the cartoon made, I REFUSE to take their view point.

Skipper · July 10, 2012, 04:52:29 PM

I belive she did die, Martin wouldn't have left Noonvale and he wouldn't have told Rose's family she was dead if she wasn't.

Dannflower Reguba · July 10, 2012, 04:56:55 PM

Have you ever heard of a coma? It's a state of mind and body were you APPEAR to be dead, I believe she entered a coma, or was just really severely knocked out. Again, how could badrang possibly kill her by throwing Rose into a WALL?! She is way too sturdy for that. Martin never returned to Noonvale because he was too ashamed to do it because he THOUGHT she was dead. And I don't recall him telling any one she was dead.

Redwaller · July 10, 2012, 04:59:20 PM

It depends how she was thrown. Maybe she hit her head on the wall. Or maybe she was thrown high and fell on a weapon.

Skipper · July 10, 2012, 05:00:11 PM

If Rose was thrown with enough force and her head hit the wall then she could have died.

Dannflower Reguba · July 10, 2012, 05:02:20 PM

Even if she was thrown on her head it wouldn't kill her. And there was no wound, that the book reinforces. She was thrown into a wall, that's that.

Why is everyone so synical about this?

And that's just it "ENOUGH FORCE," There is no way that I can see Badrang having enough force to do that, he had to be tired, was certainly distracted, and was over sized in the cartoon.

Lutra · July 10, 2012, 05:14:03 PM

Yes she actually died. I like your response in defense of a coma, but given the time period, given what is available to watch over the person in a coma, you just were not going to survive one. Martin was too sad, and too willing to move on and leave everything behind. She was clearly dead; he would've stayed with her if she was alive.

As for whether or not a blow against a wall can kill you, lets consider these possibilities: broken spine, internal bleeding, shock, heart failure.....these could all happen from being thrown against a wall. If they had simply thrown Rose against a wall in the tv series, I think many would have a hard time believing she was dead too.

Therefore they had to make it obvious she wasn't going to survive--hence death by what I guess is a slit throat or punctured heart--make of the scene what you will. Having buried her only confirms she was definitely dead there as well, so the tv series didn't change the outcome of the books, only how it happened for the sake of understanding.

Dannflower Reguba · July 10, 2012, 05:22:54 PM

Having buried her only confirms that the t.v. series makers weren't reading the books. Wouldn't Brian have said she was dead if she was? He didn't. You don't need special attention to survive a coma, and I still stand on the fact that Rose is not a patty cake.

And another thing, Rose isn't stupid either, she would have had her hands out to absorb the stike.

W0NWILL · July 10, 2012, 05:47:38 PM

Well, if she was going towards it back on, (which is how I always pictured it) she couldn't save herself by throwing out her paws.

Dannflower Reguba · July 10, 2012, 05:54:28 PM

You reach over your head.

Flandor · July 10, 2012, 05:59:46 PM

I will discuss my point of view on this once I can get home and use my copy of Martin the Warrior as reference.

I will add thought that bumping your head the wrong way will kill you. People fall in the bathtub or down stairs and die all the time. It's surprisingly common. Even if Badrang didn't throw her hard, its extremely possible she hit her head on a rock and died. It doesn't matter how strong or weak Rose was, if you hit your head the wrong way you can die.

W0NWILL · July 10, 2012, 06:23:18 PM

Quote from: danflorreguba on July 10, 2012, 05:54:28 PM
You reach over your head.

C'mon, reaching over your head, no, that wouldn't work.

Redwaller · July 10, 2012, 11:25:37 PM

Quote from: W0NWILL on July 10, 2012, 06:23:18 PM
Quote from: danflorreguba on July 10, 2012, 05:54:28 PM
You reach over your head.

C'mon, reaching over your head, no, that wouldn't work.

Yeah! If she was thrown upright?

Dannflower Reguba · July 11, 2012, 12:51:22 AM

Your hands can always reach beyond your body.... Except for certain places that only the feet can manage.

W0NWILL · July 11, 2012, 01:51:04 AM

I'm saying in reaction, I wouldn't react to being flung back-first into a wall by reaching over my head, I would react by screaming.

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Rose (yes, Rose again): Did she actually die?