Bryony's Conclusion? (Outcast of Redwall; spoilers)

[sabretache5611]

This part of Outcast still puzzles me and after reading your comments, this is how i make sense of it.

Byrony always believed in Veil's ability to do good despite his evil nature and actions.  However, on her pursuit of Veil, Veil consistently demonstrated his capacity to do evil (he stole her rations, trapped her and Togget).  After Veil died, Byrony had some time to think about good and evil and came to the conclusion that though Veil did save her life, he himself, was still an evil creature and the fact that he saved her life wasn't changing that fact....Thats how i understand it, but do i sound as if i'm contradicting myself?

[Galedeep]

This part of Outcast still puzzles me and after reading your comments, this is how i make sense of it.

Byrony always believed in Veil's ability to do good despite his evil nature and actions.  However, on her pursuit of Veil, Veil consistently demonstrated his capacity to do evil (he stole her rations, trapped her and Togget).  After Veil died, Byrony had some time to think about good and evil and came to the conclusion that though Veil did save her life, he himself, was still an evil creature and the fact that he saved her life wasn't changing that fact....Thats how i understand it, but do i sound as if i'm contradicting myself?

A little bit, but you are making a good character analysis.

[sabretache5611]

This part of Outcast still puzzles me and after reading your comments, this is how i make sense of it.

Byrony always believed in Veil's ability to do good despite his evil nature and actions.  However, on her pursuit of Veil, Veil consistently demonstrated his capacity to do evil (he stole her rations, trapped her and Togget).  After Veil died, Byrony had some time to think about good and evil and came to the conclusion that though Veil did save her life, he himself, was still an evil creature and the fact that he saved her life wasn't changing that fact....Thats how i understand it, but do i sound as if i'm contradicting myself?

A little bit, but you are making a good character analysis.

thank you

[Scragg the Weasel]

I think that she was a little harsh when speaking with Bella but that overall she still loved him as much as she did through out the story. That said she had matured and knew he was never going to be a "goodbeast" but in the end he wasnt really a truly a "badbeast" either.

[Luath]

I'd like to point out that Bryony was actually talcking to the Abbess Meriam  about this and Bella wasn't there at all.
Warning! The following opinion is both long winded and pompus!
The way I understand this conclusion is that it's not so much about good and evil or who was right or wrong as it is about maturity and acceptance.
The Redwallers all hated Veil and instantly cast him as evil, even though he was just a baby and hadn't done anything good or evil when they all decided this, which is both a harsh and immature attitude.
Now whilst Veil was actually bad (because some people just are) Veil had to grow up with the fact that 99% of the people around him hated him and at best treated him as an unwanted thing that you had to put up with because it's you're job insted of you're choice. The Redwallers never wanted to make Veil a better person because they never expected he could be, they just waited for him to get worse and worse because they had decided that was all he could ever be.   
Bryony on the other hand decided that Veil had to be a good person deep down, not believed or hoped but decided, she wasn't willing to accept that Veil could be bad because she loved him and rather than accept that fact that he did bad things but love and support him anyway she denies the badness and pretends it wasn't there. This is just as immature as the Redwallers because like them she didn't want to turn Veil into a good person but insted expected him to instantly be one. She had an idea of what he should be in her heart and was just waitting for him to be that insted of what he actually was.
Anyway long story short, by the end of the book both sides have matured in there opinion.
The Redwallers can accept the fact that Veil could have (if not been a good person) at least done some good if they had accepted him and try to help him more than they did.
Bryony could accept the fact that Veil was a bad (not necessarily evil) person but that she could still love him.   

[Lutra]

The Redwallers can accept the fact that Veil could have (if not been a good person) at least done some good if they had accepted him and try to help him more than they did.
Bryony could accept the fact that Veil was a bad (not necessarily evil) person but that she could still love him.   

Best explanation I've read, and that is what I feel it basically comes to.  Bryony was not going to be like the others of the abbey and declare Veil a loss from the start because he's a ferret.  At the same time, each creature will make a decision, and Bryony had to accept this too, but that didn't mean she would have to agree with what the others thought of him.

[Romsca]

Yeah I agree with you. Romsca (my favorite character) probably only turned nice because the Abbot was kind to her. If the other Redwallers had also been kind to Veil since he first came to the abbey, he might of turned out okay after all. But then, the story wouldn't have been nearly as dramatic. I was still very disappointed with the ending, though 

[Tam and Martin]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

But the real question is: why did she belive that he was good deep down inside unlike everyone else?

[Tam and Martin]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

But the real question is: why did she belive that he was good deep down inside unlike everyone else?

Well she had known him probably better than anyone else so that would give a good point. She also may have realized it through other things.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

But the real question is: why did she belive that he was good deep down inside unlike everyone else?

Well she had known him probably better than anyone else so that would give a good point. She also may have realized it through other things.

What other things? For his whole life, Veil acted evily. There was never a good deed that he ever did. Whatever he did was always with evil intention.

I am currently re-reading The Outcast Of Redwall, so I will probably have a more detailed opinion on this matter as soon as I am done reading it.

[Tam and Martin]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

But the real question is: why did she belive that he was good deep down inside unlike everyone else?

Well she had known him probably better than anyone else so that would give a good point. She also may have realized it through other things.

What other things? For his whole life, Veil acted evily. There was never a good deed that he ever did. Whatever he did was always with evil intention.

Well, as I said, she knew him better and maybe he wasn't always evil.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Bryony probably didn't want to believe that he was evil.

But the real question is: why did she belive that he was good deep down inside unlike everyone else?

Well she had known him probably better than anyone else so that would give a good point. She also may have realized it through other things.

What other things? For his whole life, Veil acted evily. There was never a good deed that he ever did. Whatever he did was always with evil intention.

Well, as I said, she knew him better and maybe he wasn't always evil.

But he acted evil for pretty much the whole book. If he even had some good, it surly would have shown sometime in his life before he died?

[Leatho Shellhound]

Well I also think that after Veil died Bryony saw that he could "change" his ways b/c, well he was dead.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Well I also think that after Veil died Bryony saw that he could "change" his ways b/c, well he was dead.

What? Sorry, I really didn't get that.