Bryony's Conclusion? (Outcast of Redwall; spoilers)

[James Gryphon]

This isn't to discuss Veil Sixclaw, the Outcast, but rather his caretaker, Bryony, and her really off-the-wall decision at the end of the book.

I wrote something of a parody-faux-summary of their part of Outcast, and I wanted to have a topic to put it in.

BELLA OF BROCKHALL (to ABBESS MERIAM): This ferret babe we found out in the ditch, who I have named Veil, will grow up to be evil because he's a ferret.
<BRYONY, a mouse, enters the room>
Bryony: Aw, a baby ferret! Isn't he adorable?
<VEIL SIXCLAW bites Bryony's finger>
Bella: He's bitten you, Bryony.
Bryony: Well, he was just hungry. I know he's really good.
<seasons pass>
<Veil steals FRIAR BUNFOLD'S honeypot>
Bunfold: He stole my honeypot!
Bryony: No he didn't! You're just treating him unfairly.
<Veil poisons a hedgehog, MYRTLE>
Bella: Veil, we must kick you out of Redwall forever. You turned out to be evil, just like I thought you would, and we can't have that here.
Bryony: Veil didn't really mean it... it's not fair!
<Veil vows to kill everyone in Redwall>
Bryony: I know he's really good, deep down inside!
<Bryony starts tracking Veil. Her mole friend, TOGGET, comes along>
<Veil hurts an elderly dormouse and steals everything he has>
Togget: (in molespeech) Bryony, Veil's a really bad beast.
Bryony: No, Togget, don't say that! Veil is just a misguided soul. I'll change him.
<Veil traps Bryony and Togget and leaves them to die>
Bryony: He can't really be this bad.
<Veil finds his father, a dangerous WARLORD, SWARTT SIXCLAW. Swartt couldn't care less about his son. Meanwhile, a BADGER LORD, SUNFLASH THE MACE, who is Swartt's arch-enemy, frees Bryony and Togget, and is then knocked out by Swartt. Swartt ties up Sunflash and is going to torture him.>
Swartt Sixclaw: At last, after many seasons of vainly trying, I've finally captured Sunflash the Mace! What a glorious achievement!
<Bryony sneaks up and starts cutting Sunflash's bonds.>
Swartt Sixclaw: What's this, a mouse? Die, mouse!
Veil: Bryony, run!
<Veil jumps in the way of Swartt Sixclaw's spear and gets killed>
<much later...>
Bella: I'm so sorry, Bryony. It seems Veil proved himself after all.
Bryony: Nope, I just decided that all that time, I was wrong. Veil really was evil. Sacrificing his life didn't mean a thing. Thanks for showing me the way, Bella.

---

To summarize the summary... Bryony stubbornly refuses to believe that Veil is really evil, in spite of all of the insurmountable evidence for it that's right in front of her.

Then, after he finally does something good, for possibly the first time in his life, which would seem to support her theory that he really might not've been pure evil incarnate after all, she changes her tune.

I don't doubt that Veil was a villain for at least 99% of his life, but for Bryony to suddenly and drastically change her tact on that doesn't seem to make sense... it seems that if he does something good, that should provide evidence that he might want to do good, and if he does evil, that he wants to do evil... but in Bryony's world, those two things seem to provide evidence of the opposite, with her being firmly convinced of Veil's evil only after and seemingly even because of his first good deed.

Doesn't that seem a little strange?

[The Lady Shael]

That's a pretty good summary. It's been a while since I've read the book so thanks for that.

It is a little far-fetched that Bryony would think that way. If anything, she should come to the realization that there is no pure good or pure evil (not that he was pure evil all along).

[James Gryphon]

Well, I'd say myself that there is pure good and pure evil -- but that Veil doesn't possess either.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Veil is by far the only actually puzzling figure in the whole series in the case of being grey. I'd say he wasn't. He was a villain, the only good thing he ever did (even if most of what he did wasn't necessarily bad(though multi-murdering and poisoning states pretty fairly against that)) was saving Bryony. She said she wasn't sure Veil would have done that if he knew he would be killed.
Not sure what to make of this last part I'm going to post:
Then there's his last words, "Go away, let me sleep." He echoed what he said earlier to Bryony in contempt.

He's fascinating, but this topic isn't about him.

[James Gryphon]

Then there's his last words, "Go away, let me sleep." He echoed what he said earlier to Bryony in contempt.

I never thought about it much, generally assuming that he said it in a tired or wearied manner (not maliciously), but this could help explain Bryony's behavior.

The only problem is that even so, that remark alone doesn't mean that he still didn't do a good deed. It just means that he didn't plan to sacrifice his life -- not that he didn't intend to save her, which he clearly did by telling her to run away.

Frankly, looking at it from Veil's perspective, I would be annoyed too -- this mouse who I've wanted to just leave me alone comes up and gets herself in mortal peril, so I have to save her life, and get killed in the process of doing so. I imagine that'd be kind of frustrating for anyone, and some harsh words might not be unexpected.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

I never meant Veil said those words maliciosuly. I think the book stated it as in a wearied manner.

[James Gryphon]

Well, I was thinking that by:

...he echoed what he said earlier to Bryony in contempt.

That that implied that he still had some of that same spirit in mind when he said his last words.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

The "contempt" in that post refers to his previous actions, not when he was dying.

[James Gryphon]

True, but the echoing thereof could be taken as matching the spirit of the statement, not just the words.

... well, you get the idea. I don't suppose it matters anyway since we agree on this point.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

True, but the echoing thereof could be taken as matching the spirit of the statement, not just the words.

... well, you get the idea. I don't suppose it matters anyway since we agree on this point.

I think you might have lost me. You mean when I said "contempt", I might have misplaced the word to both cases of actions, or...?

[James Gryphon]

Well, what I'm saying (in the most convoluted way I know how ) that the word "echoed" could imply that there was contempt in both statements.

[Captain Tammo]

I never did understand veil, but I guess you could say it just made the book better and more unpredictable, which will make any book that much better

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Echoed was used to state he was saying what he said before, with contempt being a noun describing the previous action. Or something pretty much like that. But this is only a statement of mine, and has nothing to do with what was said directly in the book, in wording.

[Osu]

I'll just go ahead and throw my haypenny in here...

I think Bryony's conclusion makes sense. She knew, all along, that Veil was not the nice little abbey beast she'd always hoped he was. It was only after he died, however, that she was able to admit to herself this was so. As you said, she didn't seem to think Veil jumped in front of her to solely save her life, and neither do I - personally, I think he was just trying to get under his daddy's skin. Saving a mousemaid he was trying to kill would have been properly annoying. Either way, he wasn't "good," and that one action didn't make him so.

Bella, on the other hand, seemed to have an interesting turnabout. She predicted from the start Veil's true nature - even named him after it - but after hearing Bryony's story, she seemed to find there was some good in him after all. I'm not sure how she'd admit to such a conclusion - it seems out of character for her, considering.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Bella may have been getting Bryony to fully admit to herself everything she knew. Better for the mousemaid in the end. Seriosuly, Bella went ahead and right then named her Abbess.