My Thoughts on Writing Hero/Villain Confrontations (not a story)

[James Gryphon]

This topic will attempt to discuss what traits I believe you should place in your major fights in your fan fiction. There are many stories where the villains meet little or no success in one-on-one fights or other confrontations against the hero, regardless of the villain's skills or prior reputation. I feel that this is something of a problem. In Redwall, everyone's looking forward to the foretold and inevitable confrontation between Matthias and Cluny, and most people probably figured that Martin was going to fight Tsarmina at one point. However, I (at least) only look forward to it because I know it's going to be a hard fight... if the battle is a cakewalk for the hero, there isn't much of a point in having it, and it's a huge let-down after it's over.

I'm expecting an epic fight, where the hero either very narrowly wins, is part of a mutual kill (like Luke the Warrior), or is about to lose before the villain defeats himself (due to his own psychological failings). Redwall, Mossflower, and Mattimeo all highlight these kinds of battles.

Redwall: Matthias fights Cluny the Scourge. The two at first seem evenly matched, despite Matthias's superior equipment, but Cluny gradually got the upper claw, and would have won, except that Matthias tricked him and cut the Joseph Bell, bringing it down on the legendary warlord and killing him. While it may seem like kind of a cheap win, I think it's ultimately the best one that could have been written in that circumstance, since it preserves the villain's reputation while enabling the hero to still overcome him.

Mossflower: The Skipper of Otters fights Cludd to avenge his dead brother the Mask. After a long fight, Skipper narrowly wins by throwing Cludd onto a pit of otter javelins -- which are pointed at both ends. This seemingly insignificant fact, almost trivia, relating to otter weapons, gives Skipper what appears to be an exceedingly narrow win.

Mossflower: The eagle Argulor confuses Bane for a pine marten and lifts him up into the sky. In the ensuing battle, Argulor wins, but, injured by Bane's sword, and utterly disappointed from his misidentification of his prey, he suffers the avian equivalent of a heart attack and dies -- this amounts to the series' first mutual kill, which is also a climatic way to end a fight. A similarly impressive matchup is when Romsca fights Lask Frildur in Pearls of Lutra.

Mossflower: Martin the Warrior confronts Tsarmina Greeneyes. In spite of his invincible sword, his (less durable) armor, and fighting skills, the wildcat is far more powerful and essentially tears the mouse to pieces. She only loses due to Martin's persistence, and her own mental phobias. Martin wins by default due to Tsarmina drowning herself. This fight highlights the virtues of determination and endurance, and allows Martin to show off some of his skills, while still preserving Tsarmina as a threat -- since Martin is nearly mortally wounded after the fight, and he doesn't really beat her; she defeats herself.

Mattimeo: Matthias battles the Wearet. After a grueling battle the slavemaster finally gets the advantage and knocks Matthias off over the cliff. The villain wins this matchup -- making Matthias' combat record essentially 0-in-2 when it comes to skill. The fact that the Wearet wins this fight outright is surprising, and gives credence to the Kingdom of Malkariss as a threat. Prior to reading this fight, the reader probably expects that since Matthias managed to survive Cluny, that his trials as a hero are over and that he'll be able to handle any problem he'll have to face in this new book, Mattimeo, with ease. The Wearet winning their duel foils the reader's expectations and shows that regardless of what Matthias has accomplished in the past, he's still going to be pushed to his limits now.

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On the other hand, there are some tricks or shortcuts that the writer might be tempted to use in resolving his hero's problems. If the villain has a unique power that poses the hero a threat, the writer might be tempted to try to dodge out of it, by depriving the villain of it during the fight. Likewise, there might be the temptation to have Martin (or some other supernatural aid) bail the hero out of their problems, through some piece of advice. My advice would be don't do this -- the moments in the Redwall saga where this happened, with the possible exception of Matthias and Asmodeus, struck me as being unnecessary, and generally detrimental to the story. I want to see the hero beat the villain at the height of their power, and having the plot arbitrarily weaken the villain before they even have a chance to meet deprives me of that.

At the same time, it also deprives the hero of a chance to display their own mental fortitude. When Gabool uses Skrabblag to try to kill Rawnblade, the badger is paralyzed with fear. He doesn't solve his problems or do anything particularly admirable; instead Martin supernaturally gets him to snap out of it.

I think this sort of aid is fine, if you're dealing with minor villains (like Asmodeus in Redwall), or as part of developing your character, but it shouldn't be the primary thing that gives the hero the win in their battle. Doing this feels almost like you're cheating the villain out of the victory that, by all rights, they logically "earned", and it hands the hero a victory that he didn't really do anything to earn. Both of these outcomes are undesirable. You never want your readers to feel like the villain (evil) deserved to win more than the hero (good). Either the hero should be given a chance to shine, or the villain should make some mistake, brought on by his own character flaws, that causes him to lose.

However, remember that the villain is still a character too, and that your fight, prior to the villain's defeat, ideally should build up both the hero and the villain simultaneously -- showcasing the hero as having grown and matured, and having the courage and mental fortitude to press on against a dangerous opponent, and the villain as being ruthlessly competent, and the same foul menace that he was foreshadowed as being all story long. Sometimes this effect can be played with a little bit (like when Malkariss, who is built up as this great menace, turns out to be a pitiful, wizened old polecat, no more dangerous than the Wizard of Oz, hiding behind a curtain), but you should ideally have another major fight or character-proving moment for the hero, if you intend to take down the character that's implied to be the main villain in this manner.

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The plot device of having the main hero fight the main villain isn't essential, but it allows the writer to cover everything they need to do, neatly, in one scene.

1) The hero should be shown as showing some admirable traits -- like Martin's determination in fighting against Tsarmina, in spite of his injuries, or Matthias being willing to sacrifice his life by giving up his advantageous position to save Hugo -- and these traits should ideally play a part in their win.
2) The villain should fall prey to their character flaws. Ublaz Mad Eyes, for instance, was vain and egotistical. He pays for this when he trips over and is poisoned by the snake he kept solely as an ego-booster.

You don't necessarily have to do both of these at once -- it's enough that a villain dies because they're evil, they need not display any great mistake or flaw in the process -- but if they don't, then you should probably highlight something correct that the hero does, at some point. Vice versa, you don't have to showcase a particular virtue on the part of the hero -- it can be enough that he's the hero -- but in such a case, the villain should be defeated because of his evil traits, and some error or mistake he makes because of them. Having the hero display no particular fortitude, and the villain make no particular mistake, and the villain lose implies that the hero is just more powerful than the villain. That isn't automatically a bad thing -- it can be well-written, like in the end of Outcast of Redwall -- but it is overdone, and probably shouldn't be used if the hero should realistically be less capable or experienced than the villain.

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So that's just some stray, poorly organized and described thoughts of mine on writing hero/villain confrontations; feel free to take what you can, and leave anything that doesn't seem to fit your story's circumstance behind.

[Captain Tammo]

First of all it's amazing you wrote all of that to help us out so thanks a ton! I'm going to use your advice when I write my redwall stories so again, thank you very much!

[James Gryphon]

Well, to be honest, it wasn't just to help you out. I originally intended to write a different kind of topic, with the fight descriptions as a centerpiece, but decided that it was too negative, and converted it into what we have now.

I do hope it can be helpful, though; I tried to make suggestions based on what I like to see in a story, based loosely on some themes in the Redwall series -- especially the first three, which are generally my favorites (except for Mattimeo, which I haven't read in ages, but would like to reread sometime soon, so it can become a favorite).

I'd like to try my hand at writing fan fiction of my own sometime, probably set in the far distant future, at a time when Mossflower country as we know it is a very different place -- but I've been having trouble working out some plot details, character names, etc... writing a story doesn't come very easily for me; it's something I have to get inspired to do well.

[Captain Tammo]

Well, switch up the idea of redwall. You could say that it was taken over and the woodlanders have to take it back. That's what I'm doing. Or you could make it so that the main warrior dies and the villain lives on into the next book where another warrior has to face him/her. Who know?

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Thanks a lot! This can be used not only with fanfiction (which I frankly think is dumb) but also with actual book writing.

[Matthias720]

On Matthias' fight with the Wearet:

It seems the only reason Matthias almost lost was due to his being weary from trekking through the kingdom of Malkariss and the Wearet's freakish strength. Comparatively, Rakkety Tam also fought an opponent that outclassed him in size and strength. He had an advantage over Matthias though, because he had his shield, and he was well rested since the fight was planned ahead of time. Matthias did better in comparison, because he managed to survive a long fight against a stronger opponent while having less energy. So even in defeat, he's the true winner in my book.

[martins#1fan]

Those things are to consider very major-ly.

[Tiria Wildlough]

Very good essay!
Still, there don't have to be all the things you said.
Good, anyway. You are obviously practiced at this sort of thing.

[Galedeep]

Again James, I must applaud your profound logic. Good show!

[Jukka the Sling]

Cool essay!