Mariel or LaterRose

[Dannflower Reguba]

Late Rose by far, she's a character that's actually worth liking, Mariel was very pushy, bossy, what ever you want to call it, I hated her.

Same here!

she was only like that when she was Storm Gullwacker

NO SHE WASN'T! She was ALWAYS bossy and rude, you ever think about how terribly she treated her traveling companions? Every thing in the two books eventually centered around her. People are constantly accusing Rose of being a Mary Sue. Anyone ever stop to think about Mariel? THERE'S a Mary Sue for you.

How can somebody think that Rose was like Mary Sue!?

Wondered that myself! Common theory states she stinkin' died! How is some beast who got killed by a wall a Mary Sue? (Before you ask, I don't believe in her death).

[Lutra]

From tvtropes:

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Remember a Mary Sue centers around character traits.  Rose clearly had no trait to offset the fact she was "practically perfect in every way" (as Mary Poppins would put it).  If there was one, it wasn't obvious.  I'd have to read up on Mariel again to understand her better, but memory tells me she would not be defined as a Mary Sue. 

Why these two characters are being compared is beyond me as they're nothing alike.

[Romsca]

#nook

It's as ridiculous as comparing Bluefen (quiet and shy) and Romsca (AWESOMENES!!!). They're simply complete opposites

[Lutra]

Well, not ridiculous as much as an apples to oranges comparison.  Find another Mary Sue character in Redwall and then you can make actual arguments and debates with some weight to back them up.  You cannot compare these two fairly.

[Romsca]

#nook

Triss is a Mary Sue, so are the badger lords since they're "invincible"

[321tumbler]

Who's Mary Sue?

[Romsca]

#nook


Mary Sue is not a person! A Mary Sue is a character that is practically like a perfect superhero; they are without any flaws, except maybe likeable ones. They happen to possess every single stinking skill you can name and they never get hurt

[Ungatt Trunn]

#nook


Mary Sue is not a person! A Mary Sue is a character that is practically like a perfect superhero; they are without any flaws, except maybe likeable ones. They happen to possess every single stinking skill you can name and they never get hurt

In that case, nether Rose nor Mariel were Mary Sue's.... But I still really don't like Mariel!

[WoodenSpoon]

A Mary Sue is essentially an underdeveloped character. They are usually made by people who are new to writing, particularly fan-fiction. They are unlikable mainly because the writer does not know how to portray personality on paper yet.  Superpowers and perfection are symptoms, but I know of basically perfect characters that were still likable.
    It is usually the writers current skill, rather then the traits she gave the character, that make or break a Mary Sue. Newbie writers are usually very sensitive about making their heroines ((or heroes, yes I am over generalizing here, but most are female)) fail or be in the wrong. They need to learn how to be tougher on them. If we saw a character with practically no personality flaws have to struggle for her victory, make mistakes, and have sincerely good people dislike her for legitimate reasons, I for one would not label her a Mary Sue.

   Ahem... sorry. You got the brunt of my essay mode there. According to my defination, neither Rose nor Mariel are Mary-Sues. I mean, I can't think of any good people who disliked them (in book anyway), but how many Redwall goodies dislike each other? On a certain level, most of the heroes have some Sue-ism in them. That's how it is in a basically black and white universe. Still, Mr. Jacques does his job well, and while some of you may feel differently, I never caught myself saying, "Ugh, Rose is soooo perfect! Why do we have to have her stuffed in our faces all the time?", or even, "Mariel succeeds at EVERYTHING! It's ridiculous!" Let me tell you, a real Mary Sue never had to fight tooth and claw to get out of taking a bath. And, if there is such a thing, she was in the right.

   On a side note, wouldn't it make more sense to compare Cornflower and Rose?

[Dannflower Reguba]

Not really. (the different comparison part)

[Free Thought]

I always thought that Columbine and Rose made good comparison as they both had to ... "rein in" their love interests from time to time, but more interestingly Abbess Germaine and Rose.  I can only imagine if Rose had lived to grow old she too would be very much like Redwall's first Mother Abbess.  Which leads to little wonder Martin got along so well with the ol' mouse.  Anyways, that's just my two cents into it anyway. 

[rachel25]

Yeah I know I could of chosen all sorts of different creatures but I chose Mariel And LaterRose  But I prefer Mariel to Rose   

[MatthiasMan]

I've always thought Rose was better. 

[Vilu Daskar]

Mariel is way better.

[rachel25]

I'm with Vilu Daskar I think Mariel was a better character