Polleekin-Why exacly didn't she tell Martin about Rose's death?

[Leatho Shellhound]

Never gathered that Polleekin would have hallucinations from the text or description of her.  Usually Mr. Jacques is pretty black and white with his characters and descriptions.  If she was cuckoo, you'd know (e.g. Madd the squirrel).

You could add to that Mad Maudie, from Lord Brocktree

Mad Maudie was NOT mad!! She was an awesome boxing hare!

And she was from the book Eulalia!. 

[Duxwing]

If she did, they might not have gone, and Martin wouldn't have gotten his sword, and Redwall wouldn't be built, etc. So Rose kind of HAD to die.

But it could have been handled better.  That's the point of the thread.

-Duxwing

[Leatho Shellhound]

Yes, Rose could have stayed, and not gone to the battle.

[GeminyaTome]

Never gathered that Polleekin would have hallucinations from the text or description of her.  Usually Mr. Jacques is pretty black and white with his characters and descriptions.  If she was cuckoo, you'd know (e.g. Madd the squirrel).

You could add to that Mad Maudie, from Lord Brocktree

Mad Maudie was NOT mad!! She was an awesome boxing hare!

Her name implies that she wasn't all together...

And she was from the book Eulalia!. 

oops.... This is sad. I need to re-read some more Redwalls!! It's been too long! Now that summer has started maybe I can get some more in!

[Ungatt Trunn]

If she did, they might not have gone, and Martin wouldn't have gotten his sword, and Redwall wouldn't be built, etc. So Rose kind of HAD to die.

But it could have been handled better.  That's the point of the thread.

-Duxwing

Yes, Polleekin could of explained to Martin that Rose would die, and Martin could tell Rose, and she might of actually lived.
Also, if Polleekin did tell Martin about it, couldn't have Rose just stayed at Noonvale, completely out of harms way?

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Even if Polleekin 'ad told zem, zomezin' elze vould ztill 'ave 'appened. Unfortunately, zat'z ze vay ztuff like ziz vorkz.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Even if Polleekin 'ad told zem, zomezin' elze vould ztill 'ave 'appened. Unfortunately, zat'z ze vay ztuff like ziz vorkz.

How do we know Rose would have died if she had sterred clear of Marshank?

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Like ah zaid, zat'z ze vay ztuff like ziz vorkz.

[phoenixfoden]

Reminds me of a video game called fable where the blind seeress called theresa tells the hero only that the path to save the world will result in sacrifices,these sacrifices reveal themselves later and they are not nice.

If pollekin had told martin would he have gone on his misson?would he change his mind at the thought of his love being harmed?
I think it was best of pollekin to keep that secret otherwise mossflower would have become compleatly different.

[KitrallStreamrippler]

I agree with phoenixfoden, but I will put my (basically same) reasons in different words.

I believe that Polleekin couldn't tell Martin because, well, the space-time continuum. (Not that she would have any knowledge of that, necessarily, but mucking about with time is a serious business. There can be some major repercussions.) Even though they would not be time-traveling, I think that even knowing too much (like what Doc says in Back To The Future) can affect EVERYTHING. Seriously, having an excess of knowledge about the future can really mess stuff up. Time is a wonderful but terrifying thing.

[Free Thought]

Agreed. 

Unfortunately, Rose had to die for the sake of the Redwall Series.  I mean, if Polleekin had told Martin (that is to say she saw the vision clear enough) that Rose was going to die, Martin would have found a way to protect her.  Then Rose would have survived and Martin would have gone back to Noonvale.  Her death was essential for him to leave the north and wander into Mossflower, as unfortunate and sad is circumstances may be.

Just an observation here... Does anyone else find that the whole Martin/Rose thing seems to be the most questioned, debated and possibly loved topic about the Redwall series? 

Makes you wonder if Jacques had a larger plan in mind before his untimely death... possibly an answer to the questions... I mean we know Martin goes on a secret quest from Gonff's journal, yes we are told Grumm planted a rose bush on Rose's grave, but we aren't told when, we never 'see' Rose buried or an actual 'grave'... just things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

[Ungatt Trunn]

Just an observation here... Does anyone else find that the whole Martin/Rose thing seems to be the most questioned, debated and possibly loved topic about the Redwall series? 

Makes you wonder if Jacques had a larger plan in mind before his untimely death... possibly an answer to the questions... I mean we know Martin goes on a secret quest from Gonff's journal, yes we are told Grumm planted a rose bush on Rose's grave, but we aren't told when, we never 'see' Rose buried or an actual 'grave'... just things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

Yea, it does seem to be... when I first finished Martin The Warrior, I though that BJ wouldn't let things slip like that that easily. Perhaps he was working on a work about them before he died...
Also, I think that Martin The Warrior might be the central book in the Redwall series. It is that book that makes every other Redwall book (With the exception of Lord Brocktree) what they are. Without that book, the other Redwall just wouldn't be the same...

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Just an observation here... Does anyone else find that the whole Martin/Rose thing seems to be the most questioned, debated and possibly loved topic about the Redwall series? 

Makes you wonder if Jacques had a larger plan in mind before his untimely death... possibly an answer to the questions... I mean we know Martin goes on a secret quest from Gonff's journal, yes we are told Grumm planted a rose bush on Rose's grave, but we aren't told when, we never 'see' Rose buried or an actual 'grave'... just things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

Yea, it does seem to be... when I first finished Martin The Warrior, I though that BJ wouldn't let things slip like that that easily. Perhaps he was working on a work about them before he died...
Also, I think that Martin The Warrior might be the central book in the Redwall series. It is that book that makes every other Redwall book (With the exception of Lord Brocktree) what they are. Without that book, the other Redwall just wouldn't be the same...

Aye, it tellz a bit aboot vhere Martin comez from (vhich iz then furzered by Ze Legend O' Luke) an' ov' 'e came tae be travellin', az vell az talkin' aboot 'iz zvord.

It vaz alzae ze firzt Redwall book zat ah read, zae it iz zorta ze central book in ze zeriez for me taae.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Just an observation here... Does anyone else find that the whole Martin/Rose thing seems to be the most questioned, debated and possibly loved topic about the Redwall series? 

Makes you wonder if Jacques had a larger plan in mind before his untimely death... possibly an answer to the questions... I mean we know Martin goes on a secret quest from Gonff's journal, yes we are told Grumm planted a rose bush on Rose's grave, but we aren't told when, we never 'see' Rose buried or an actual 'grave'... just things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

Yea, it does seem to be... when I first finished Martin The Warrior, I though that BJ wouldn't let things slip like that that easily. Perhaps he was working on a work about them before he died...
Also, I think that Martin The Warrior might be the central book in the Redwall series. It is that book that makes every other Redwall book (With the exception of Lord Brocktree) what they are. Without that book, the other Redwall just wouldn't be the same...

Aye, it tellz a bit aboot vhere Martin comez from (vhich iz then furzered by Ze Legend O' Luke) an' ov' 'e came tae be travellin', az vell az talkin' aboot 'iz zvord.

It vaz alzae ze firzt Redwall book zat ah read, zae it iz zorta ze central book in ze zeriez for me taae.

Yep In a way, it might be a good book for a starter of the Redwall series, though I still do think that Lord Brocktree should be the first book for a starter.

[Tiria Wildlough]

This is a really good point. I never really thought of it like that, but if Martin had warned Rose, and she had listened, things might have seriously changed. Someone should write a fanfiction about that...