Forged weapons

[The Shade]

Who makes weapons??? I'm not talking about badgers an hares, but vermin. Where do their steel cutlasses and pikeheads come from??? Do they mine for ore??? If so, where are the mines???

[Shadowed One]

I don't know, they probably steal it from woodlanders that make weapons.

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Aye, like vhen Badrang ztole Martin'z zvord. Ah Dinnae really remember much aboot minez in Redwall, except for ze Quarry which iz vhere zey got ze ztonez tae build Redwall.

[The Shade]

If so, where do the woodlanders get metal from???  Don't tell me all the weapons come from fallen stars, like Martins did.

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Nay clue. Mayhapz zey 'ave zome unkenned mine zomevhere...

[Tam and Martin]

I don't really know. There was a sandstone Quarry so maybe ther was a mine BJ never mentioned before.

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Ah remember zat a lot o' Redwall veoponz vere old vonez found zroughoot ze abbey. Ah remember zome Redwallerz vieldin' curtain rodz.

[Rusvul]

Hmm. As a blacksmith, I can say that weapons are not easy to make, and that's with modern techniques. There is no realistic way that there would be an entire horde of vermin who are well armed and have never forged their own weapons. I mean, seriously, it would take one blacksmith weeks to make a low-quality sword. Months for a really good one.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Who says that vermin couldn't make there own weapons? If they do it properly, it shouldn't take that long, though you would have to be pretty experienced to make a good sword or dagger in a somewhat short time.

[Kitsune]

Each horde probably had they're own forger for making weapons, just like they had a scout(s). It would be necessary, unless they just stole cartloads of weapons. It just might not have been mentioned. Or, each could have been taught how to make a weapon, but just steal one if theirs breaks because they were lazy.

[Rusvul]

Erm... No. There is no way in a random ragtag team of, say, Juska, or a massive horde, that every single creature is trained in weaponmaking. Again, I think that some of you are underestimating the effort that goes into making weapons. That is, unless you have a factory. But, to make weapons you need...

1: A mineshaft, to collect ores. You must have miners who know what they're doing, and can actually mine. Real life mining is infinitely more dangerous and difficult than in Minecraft.

2: A foundary, to smelt the ores into more pure iron, and alloy that metal into steel. In case you didn't know, iron is a pretty lame material. It rusts quickly, and bends a lot. Steel is much better, harder, more brittle, and slower to rust. In a foundary, you have to put a lot of ore into the top of a giant foundary furnace, where all of the metal melts out and flows into the bottom of the furnace, and then out of a side and into a pool. Smelting at its simplest. Still requires a large immobile furnace, and a lot of fuel and ore.

3: A forge, to shape the metal into weapons. Forming a weapon such as a sword, of normal size, can take perhaps 3-8 hours, rough guess, depending on quality. (Months and months, if you're a Samurai smith, but that's beside the point, as there are no Samurai in Redwall). Then, if you have modern tools, it takes you another 2-4 hours to sharpen, polish, and all that stuff. If you don't have modern power tools, it takes, like, a week. Do you have any idea how hard it is to take a tiny little file and sharpen and polish a big blade? I once made a serrated knife, and just sharpening and serrating about 5 inches of knife on one side took
for-flippin'-ever. Plus, you need like a billion files of many different types. And, if you skimp on the filing, you get a blunt sword, which isn't described in the books.

One of the main flaws in the seamlessness that is Redwall is the weapons, it's really unlikely that everyone (particularly vermin) are so well armed, seeing as about half or more of the vermin groups just wander with no set home, and the only forge ever mentioned is Salamandastron, and maybe somewhere on Sampetra.

[The Shade]

Don't worry, I don't misunderstand you, I've made knifes before, they take ages to make. I've resently been sharpening my machete, and yep, it does take time.

[Lutra]

Rusvul has made just about every point I could make.  There's a lot of miners out there that are never mentioned in the stories for the sheer number of weapons in the books.  Also remember the beasts don't live as long as humans so they'd need to be training apprentices very quickly.  Its a continuity error but I'd say the target audience isn't going to question how the weapons were produced, save for the fact they somehow were.  There were quarries mentioned, so we don't have to assume every knife or dagger was made of steel or some ore...they could be stone.

[Shadowed One]

Yeah, but it says that a lot of vermin have crude spears with metal or stone tips.

[Kitsune]

There might have been some place where a vermin who had his own little mine and was slightly skilled in making weapons sold them to vermin for a cheap price, hence the poor quality.