Salamandastron's Secret Room

[Osu]

Brian Jacques never mentioned who the first Badgerlord/lady was. There were several names of past badger rulers listed a few times in various books (I couldn't say off the top of my head) and some fans believe the first badger is named among them (e.g., Ceteruler, etc.)

[Maudie]

I always thought it was Spearlady Gorse, the first Mossflower badger to map the route to Salamandastron. But there might have been other non-Mossflorian badgers before her.

[Osu]

I don't recall reading Spearlady Gorse mapped a route to Salamandastron. Which book mentions it?

Personally, I like to think there were innumerable badgers going back long before the events of any Redwall book, too many to name. It seems more of a mystery that way, which I like. But of course, it's just as likely the first badger of Salamandastron was indeed named somewhere in the series.

[Redwaller]

I don't remember it being so. But if you look at Mossflower, there's a little thing that doesn't fit:

In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.

[Osu]

In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.

I'd noticed that, too. Safe to say it can be chalked up to Mossflower being one of the early books, written while the Redwall universe was being worked out. There's also Outcast of Redwall, wherein the one hare family has become many once more.

I can see hares adventuring to the mountain and bringing their families up there, accounting for the hiccup in headcount between Mossflower and OoR, but how on earth did the hundreds of hares under Lord Brocktree get reduced to.... what was it again, ten?

This is one of those things I like to spend ridiculous amounts of time thinking about, haha.

[Maudie]

I don't recall reading Spearlady Gorse mapped a route to Salamandastron. Which book mentions it?

Personally, I like to think there were innumerable badgers going back long before the events of any Redwall book, too many to name. It seems more of a mystery that way, which I like. But of course, it's just as likely the first badger of Salamandastron was indeed named somewhere in the series.

I believe it was Mossflower, where on the map to Salamandastron it says that she learned the way from a barnacle goose. I should reread it so that I have a better feel for what's goin' on...

[Redwaller]

In Mossflower, there is one hare family, but then if you look at Lord Brocktree, that was before Mossflower, there's lots and lots of hares.

I'd noticed that, too. Safe to say it can be chalked up to Mossflower being one of the early books, written while the Redwall universe was being worked out. There's also Outcast of Redwall, wherein the one hare family has become many once more.

I can see hares adventuring to the mountain and bringing their families up there, accounting for the hiccup in headcount between Mossflower and OoR, but how on earth did the hundreds of hares under Lord Brocktree get reduced to.... what was it again, ten?

This is one of those things I like to spend ridiculous amounts of time thinking about, haha.

I think they were actually like five or six.

Also, in Lord Brocktree, Brocky goes to King Bucko Bigbones' court, where all of the hares have gone, so it means that before Lord Brocktree there were lots of hares too.

[Osu]

I believe it was Mossflower, where on the map to Salamandastron it says that she learned the way from a barnacle goose. I should reread it so that I have a better feel for what's goin' on...

Ooh I need to reread that book, too. It's been years, I think, haha.

Also, in Lord Brocktree, Brocky goes to King Bucko Bigbones' court, where all of the hares have gone, so it means that before Lord Brocktree there were lots of hares too.

Makes sense. But where did all those hares go between Lord Brocktree and Boar?

[Maudie]

Actually, the map was

Given to Lady Sable Brock by Olav Skyfurrow the wildgoose, after she found him injured in Mossflower and tended his hurts. The beacon that my skein find its way to the sea by is called the strange mountain of the fire lizard.

So it was Lady Sable Brock, not Spearlady Gorse. I think it is probable that she was the first badger ruler of Salamandastron, or at least the first Mossflorian badger ruler, though there is possibility that she wasn't.

[Daniel the crusader]

how do all badgers and hares know the salamondaston war cry if  they never head about it

[Daniel the crusader]

how do all badgers and hares know the salamondaston war cry if  they never head about Salamondastron

[Redwaller]

No double post please. There's a shiny Modify button at the top of your post. 

And I'd say they all know it just like that, as they are drawn to Salamandastron.

[Lady Amber]

Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.

True but someone has to make it.

Are you sure of that? They're mystical carvings that predict the future, perhaps they were always there, even before creatures walked the earth.

How could the carvings be there without somebeast putting them there?

[Tam and Martin]

Boar the fighter in Mossflower says that the carvings had always been there.

True but someone has to make it.

Are you sure of that? They're mystical carvings that predict the future, perhaps they were always there, even before creatures walked the earth.

How could the carvings be there without somebeast putting them there?

That what I am saying!

[Rusvul]

Okay, supposing it's totally logical and it all makes sense, then how do you explain the fact that they predict the future? My point is, if it's magical, all bets are off.