Redwall's "Gray" Characters

[Jetthebinturong]

In redwall cannibals are any creatures that eat others but for some reason fish don't count in that (why so mean to the fish?)

[phoenixfoden]

Funny isint it vermin eat birds and redwallers eat fish.both are animals

[AxeHound]

I don't believe that there are usually any talking birds in the books where vermin eat birds.

[Capn Greypatch]

Dont forget Grubbage! He was a good beast trapped in a rat's body....haha, he was hilarious...
And I would say birds tend to vary a lot, in terms of being good or evil, although not so much with crows.

[Dannflower Reguba]

FLIIIIIIIIIINKYYYYYYYY! He's beast.... That's all I gotta say.   

[Buckler The Leg Buckler]

In Marlfox,I think, a Guosim killed Log-a-Log from behind. Wouldn't that be grey since shrews are classified as good. Also, I think that Guosim helped the Marlfoxes ride the boat.

[Grond]

Old thread but what the ##:1168 why not revive it.

Looking at Taggerung/Deyna specifically Jacques chose to have an otter, who had an extreme aversion to killing- higher than that of many "good beast" warriors, to be a member of a good species raised by vermin. If we look at the Redwall books- we have examples of characters or groups generally considered to be good who are far less averse to killing than Tagg. A case in point would be many of the Rogue Crew otters in particular someone like Kite Slayer, I think her name was. She could be arguably be described as sociopathic along with a number of her crew mates. It is not a stretch to assume that if one of them had been raised by a vermin band, like Tagg was, that they would behave much like the other members of that band/group.

Veil as I mentioned in the Outcast thread seemed to be mentally ill.

So I find it weird how Jacques chose to handle these 2 opposite and unique scenarios.

[WUMASTER]

I would say there are some more:

Blaggut is one example. He used to be a searat, but he became nice at the end of The Bellmaker.

King Araltum is another. He's not really evil or anything, but he is extremely arrogant and doesn't care much for his people.

I can't remember her name, but the queen of the "squidjees" in Martin the Warrior could be considered one. She enslaves other beasts, but eventually helps Martin.

Whenever there's a tyrant, their common horde beasts follow their orders, because they are too scared to not do so. They are just doing what they're forced to do, which is why usually the heroes let them go in the end, if they promise to not pick up a weapon or hurt anyone.

Martin's spirit is also a "gray" character in Loamhedge. The plot of the book had some problems, which if you read it you can find out. Other than that, he's a good guy in all the other books.

[Dylan Reguba]

I always wondered: how come (with the exception of Gulo and company) all the vermin eat the same fare as Redwallers? They're from carnivorous species, but they aren't "bad" because they devour other creatures; they're "bad" because they're vermin, period.

[Cornflower MM]

From what I remember, Redwallers eat fish - Vermin eat fish and birds. Maybe that has something to do with it? We weer shown multiple times throughout the books that the Redwallers were friends with the birds. (Although not all of them appeared to be as advanced as the Redwallers, which was rather annoying to me. Either they can talk, appreciate candied chestnuts and other Redwall fare, and be good strategists - Or they can't. Make up your miiiiiind, Mr. Jacques.)

[Cléo]

.

[The Grey Coincidence]

Pokes @Cléo with a stick. Not a robot are ye?
Regarding fish, birds and vermin- well the fact that they eat flesh doesn't make or break villainy because a) Jacques himself was most likely not vegetarian and more importantly b) they all fall in different places along the Sliding Scale of... Of... Anthropomorphism? I dunno if that's right but let me explain. Vermin and woodlanders are to some extent Funny Animals- some are closer to Civilized Animals but they all fall between those two tropes.
Birds and fish however fall between Civilized and Talking Animals on this scale- ie, they aren't as advanced as the mammal's and are therefore 'edible'.  This may seem rather cruel- but keep in mind that fish and birds are just as likely to view them as lunch in turn. They are all Animals- but different enough I guess that eating across isn't cannibalism- whereas a mammal eating another mammal would fall under cannibalism and therefore lead to the character involved being a villain. At least in Redwall there's no way I can see the good guys commiting cannibalism (Fanfiction can obviously blur the line but I don't think I've ever seen something as brutal as that in canon or fan-made media).

[Sebias of Redwall]

Very well put Grey.

[The Grey Coincidence]

I think I also noticed something. Are Redwall pillows full of feathers? Because I think in Pearls of Lutra Tansy breaks a pillow and feathers are said to go out.
So where did they get the feathers from? Did they just collect it out of a nest? Because I'd like to point out that there are a lot of pillows in Redwall so either they're invading a lot of nests (cleaning them out) or something else is going on...

[The Skarzs]

Lol, never thought of that. So many instances in the books, when you really think about them, are so much more simple in real life than it would be there. Cheese, for example. . .