Chronology?

Started by the_glass_is_full, May 16, 2014, 04:30:59 AM

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the_glass_is_full

It doesn't seem that the Redwall books have very much to distinguish a timeline in them. The only three books you can tell really took part before or after each other are the ones with Luke,Martin,and Matthias. Has there been an official chronology released?

Blazemane

#1
I think there are a few things to distinguish the timeline for a lot of the earlier books, but lots of times they're small details, and definitely with the last seven books, there isn't anything to help. I don't know that there's an official chronology, but the one generally agreed on is this:

Lord Brocktree
Brocktree is Boar the fighter's father, so this book has to come before Mossflower. Since Luke comes back with the Vilu Daskar's ship and sees that Martin is already long gone, the events of The Legend of Luke must happen very close to the events of Martin the Warrior, which can't have happened too long before Mossflower since Martin is the hero of both of those stories. It is generally assumed that badgers like Brocktree live far longer than mice, such as those of Luke the warrior's family. And since Boar the fighter has already long been ruler of Salamandastron by the time of Mossflower, there has to be enough time between Lord Brocktree and Mossflower for Brocktree to take leadership, live out his days and leave it to his son, and then for Boar to live out his entire leadership. More than that, however, there isn't a single remaining hare of the Long Patrol from Lord Brocktree by the time Martin comes to Salamandastron.
The one tricky thing here, though, is that Ungatt Trunn is Verdauga's Greeneyes' brother. So the fact that Verdauga is alive at the beginning of Mossflower even though Brocktree is already dead either makes Verdauga really, really young in Lord Brocktree or really, really old in Mossflower. Maybe both, except I think that Ungatt Trunn already seems somewhat threatened by the idea of Verdauga's legacy even as early on as Lord Brocktree.
The Legend of Luke
Luke's story. Martin is a young child.
Martin the Warrior
Martin is taken by Badrang and later defeats him.
Mossflower
Martin travels south and frees Mossflower wood. Abbess Germaine begins plans for the Abbey.
The Legend of Luke
The first and third sections of the book. Redwall is being built.
The Outcast of Redwall
Bella is still alive. Sunflash is Brocktree's great-grandson and Boar's grandson.
Mariel of Redwall
The bell of the Abbey still isn't constructed yet. Rawnblade Widestripe is referenced as the great-grandson of Sunflash. Rawnblade donates a bell meant for Salamandastron to Redwall. It's the Joseph Bell.
The Bellmaker
Many of the same characters from Mariel are still alive; we see them older now.
Salamandastron
The characters of Mariel and The Bellmaker are nowhere to be found, but the Joseph bell makes a number of appearances. So it must come after The Bellmaker. It must also be before Redwall because the Joseph Bell is still the Joseph Bell and not, instead, the Matthias and Methuselah Bells. No other books come chronologically before Redwall, so by process of elimination, Salamandastron must be here.
Redwall
Redwall has a long history by now. This book also marks the last appearance of the Joseph Bell. It gets destroyed at the end of the book.
Mattimeo
Mattimeo is Matthias' son.
The Pearls of Lutra
The Martin of this story is Mattimeo's son.
The Long Patrol
Tansy, from The Pearls of Lutra, is now the Abbess of Redwall.
Marlfox
Lady Cregga Rose Eyes, the badger ruler in The Long Patrol, is now living at Redwall.
Taggerung
Cregga is still living at Redwall, and she mentions that her friend, Songbreeze--from Marlfox--has long since passed.
Triss
The Skipper of this story is said to be a descendant of Deyna--one of the main otters from Taggerung.

From this point on, I can't remember any direct connections made in any of the remaining books between their characters, events or objects, but they could definitely still be there. I think publication order is generally assumed to be chronological order, but I don't know if Brian Jacques ever officially said so. Still, the following books couldn't possibly exist between any of the books above (except for in the time between Taggerung and Triss), so they've got to happen some time afterwards. Anyways, the publishing order for the rest is:

Loamhedge
Rakkety Tam
High Rhulain
Eulalia!
Doomwyte
The Sable Quean
The Rogue Crew

Gonff the Mousethief

Me and my friend put together a HUGE timeline like this. ;D Yours is much more in depth than ours.
I want the world of Tolkien,
The message of Lewis;
The adventure of Jacques,
And the heart of Milne.
But I want the originality of me.



Blazemane

Quote from: Gonff the Mousethief on May 17, 2014, 05:38:09 PM
Me and my friend put together a HUGE timeline like this. ;D Yours is much more in depth than ours.

Did you two make a sort of visual timeline? Like, you drew it out on big piece of paper? Whatever way you did the timeline, you should post it here! It'd be cool to see.

Sailears

#4
The main thing to bear in mind is focus on the bulk of the story, and not the preamble/epilogue.

For example Martin the Warrior is told as a story to Abbot Saxtus, after Mariel and Dandin have left to explore over the ocean (IIRC), so depends where you want to put it - could read it after the Bellmaker if you like, although I never did this.

Lord Brocktree is narrated by Russano, after the events of the Long Patrol, possibly even after the Taggerung seeing as he is telling it to his children (IIRC?) though the story belongs at the very beginning.

Otherwise what Blazemane posted is the way to go, although personally I read all of Legend of Luke after Mossflower.

I haven't read any of them for years, so I hope I remembered those things correctly.
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Really I think that the books should be read in Publication order for the first time around but then it is always fun to read them again the other way around. ;D
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