Are the vermin treated unfairly?

[Lady Ashenwyte]

I read a fanfic about how a group of harmless travelling foxes were brutally butchered by some Long Patrol recruits. It was so sad. I think racism is hugely prevalent in the Mossflower era.

[Dannflower Reguba]

I read a fanfic about how a group of harmless travelling foxes were brutally butchered by some Long Patrol recruits. It was so sad. I think racism is hugely prevalent in the Mossflower era.

       Fanfics are far far FAR removed from the actual thing. Jaques had a specific purpose for each and every beast. Is it racism to defend yourself against an attacker? Absolutely not! That's one of the issues in the here and now, that people will take things out of context just to play the race card. In the Redwall setting, what's happening? Why are the vermin being attacked? They aren't, they're being counterattacked, the woodlander + whoever else side is somewhere around always responding to a vicious assault from the vermin. If the vermin never attacked to begin with, they could live normal lives. Look at (Swinky?) for crying out loud! He lived a peaceful life because he wasn't aggressive!

[James Gryphon]

I have to agree with danflor on this one. The very first rule of the Redwall universe to go in almost every fan fiction or role play I've ever seen is "no good vermin". Sometimes it can be done well, don't get me wrong, but it's still a big difference from the original portrayal of the series, especially when the author makes a point of having the vermin be completely and obviously pure-hearted. "THE WORST REDWALL FANFIC EVER" is pretty much the definitive parody of this, with 'Brushslay':

I am the first verman abbot of redwall. But i am not a verman. I am your allie. I am a good guy.

There's a reason why Blaggut, Romsca, etc. are talked about so much -- it's because almost all the other characters of their species are unashamedly and unalloyedly evil. The few other times they aren't, it's usually when they're dimwitted comic relief. The characters aren't evil because they're vermin, they're vermin because they're evil.

The only trouble came in when the good guys realized that species usually indicates alignment and started mercilessly wiping out vermin later in the series. That's what makes Abbot Mortimer, and other characters like him, so endearing to me -- they legitimately treated everyone with kindness, even those that the reader knows don't deserve it. It's one thing to be nice to your woodlander allies, but it took things to another level when the Redwallers were kind to their enemies, and were reluctant to take life even after they were under attack.

[The Skarzs]

*Reads first chapter of link.*
MY EYES! THEY BUUURRRRN!!!
*Goes to cry. . .*

Good points, you two.

[LT Sandpaw]

HAHAHAHAHAAHA, That was too good, oh man, I can't stop laughing.

[Lady Ashenwyte]

I read a fanfic about how a group of harmless travelling foxes were brutally butchered by some Long Patrol recruits. It was so sad. I think racism is hugely prevalent in the Mossflower era.

       Fanfics are far far FAR removed from the actual thing. Jaques had a specific purpose for each and every beast. Is it racism to defend yourself against an attacker? Absolutely not! That's one of the issues in the here and now, that people will take things out of context just to play the race card. In the Redwall setting, what's happening? Why are the vermin being attacked? They aren't, they're being counterattacked, the woodlander + whoever else side is somewhere around always responding to a vicious assault from the vermin. If the vermin never attacked to begin with, they could live normal lives. Look at (Swinky?) for crying out loud! He lived a peaceful life because he wasn't aggressive!

I know Fanfic isn't the real thing. But some characters just mistrust innocent creatures and someone pays with their lives.

[Feles]

One badger is worse at this than every other one combined, Lonna Bowstripe
He hunted the remaining vermin down to the very last one because of the death of his friend, no other reason, even after he killed they're leader

[Ashleg]

I have to agree with danflor on this one. The very first rule of the Redwall universe to go in almost every fan fiction or role play I've ever seen is "no good vermin". Sometimes it can be done well, don't get me wrong, but it's still a big difference from the original portrayal of the series, especially when the author makes a point of having the vermin be completely and obviously pure-hearted. "THE WORST REDWALL FANFIC EVER" is pretty much the definitive parody of this, with 'Brushslay':

I am the first verman abbot of redwall. But i am not a verman. I am your allie. I am a good guy.

There's a reason why Blaggut, Romsca, etc. are talked about so much -- it's because almost all the other characters of their species are unashamedly and unalloyedly evil. The few other times they aren't, it's usually when they're dimwitted comic relief. The characters aren't evil because they're vermin, they're vermin because they're evil.

The only trouble came in when the good guys realized that species usually indicates alignment and started mercilessly wiping out vermin later in the series. That's what makes Abbot Mortimer, and other characters like him, so endearing to me -- they legitimately treated everyone with kindness, even those that the reader knows don't deserve it. It's one thing to be nice to your woodlander allies, but it took things to another level when the Redwallers were kind to their enemies, and were reluctant to take life even after they were under attack.

The best redwall fanfic ever....

[Mara the Wolf]

I'd say yes, at times, but then I'm a softie and open-minded, and a believer that most are capable of being good, if given a chance (there are exceptions, and when a person has proven time and again they're bad, then it's time to give up on them, but be willing to give them more than one "second chance")

An example, near the end of Mattimeo, Slagar tricks his slaver band in turning on each other. These guys are okay with kidnapping kids and turning them over to a life of slavery where they'll be worked to death, and the weasels do kill the stoats (which Matthias and co. witness). But, even if they don't really deserve mercy from Matthias and co.'s perspectives, they had the five remaining weasels (who would've been no threat to an army the size of Matthias') tied up, disarmed, and were going to use them as meat shields when entering Malkariss, and the only reason they didn't do so was because they were convinced the weasels' begging would destroy any attempts at stealth. All things considered, they were being straight-up cold-blooded in this situation (even if they felt the weasels didn't deserve to live).

[clunylooney]

I think some are, mainly the dumb ones or the good ones, but in general, they are vermin.

[JazzOfRedwall98]

I personally don't believe so, at least from what I've read. I haven't read every book, but it seems that more often than not, the woodlanders are simply reacting to how the vermin are treating them. Even if some horde members are forced to join, it doesn't negate that they had no qualms in murdering innocent animals to save their own skins. I know this kinda brings up the question of how vermin are raised and all that, but again, from what I've read, it seems like most vermin aren't even willing to try and play nice unless it's a trick of some sort. I can't blame the woodlanders for giving the vermin a taste of their own medicine.