Changes to the Redwall 'formula'

[BrookSkimmer]

I don't think it'd be any more Redwall than something like, say, Watershrimp Down.

Did you write Watershrimp on purpose? It's Watership Down, but you probably know that. I think the Watershrimp thing would make an excellent otter book

[Tiria Wildlough]

@JG, The more I think about this, the more I say, 'No, this isn't Redwall, it's something completely different.' This is a world where mice cannot fight wildcats and win, slingotters can't go within a mile of wildcats with axes, and everything is awfully EVEN.
It's not that I don't like it, though.

[cairn destop]

1 ---- You might want to check out the internet comic Inherit The Earth.  Since this is set in North America, the animals are different.  It might give you some ideas regarding characters.

2 ---- Again, the other comic has lost technology that can affect the world.  The introduction of guns isn't too odd.  You might want to consider how Japan first reacted to the modern weapon.  It seems reasonable that the world wouldn't stagnate.  It was something I also addressed in my Vermin Badger series.

3 ---- If you are going to change the lineup of characters, then the idea is a valid one.  I liked your reasoning for the dogs. 

4 ---- I'm also a great believer in the grey character.  Nothing is pure good or evil.  It is one of the biggest faults in the Redwall series.  At least that is my personal feeling. 

5 ---- Hope you're into art.  The idea of having the various species represented in various heights could have some unexpected results.  For example, how do you have a shrew fight a wolf?  If you maintain a scale, the shrew could never reach the wolf with a paw-held weapon, or it would be too clumsy for the shorter character.

[Gears]

Recently I've been thinking a bit about the Redwall formula and the things that pertain to it; the good mice, squirrels, etc. and the evil rats, ferrets, foxes, the distinctly pseudo-medieval environment, the consistently vague, but ultimately balanced character size scale, and everything.

The reason for this is that I've had the idea of making my own piece of fan fiction that would stir some of this up, and it's occurred to me that with all the changes I have in mind, it might cease to be Redwall fan fiction and instead become something different -- Redwall-like, certainly, but ultimately a distinct form of literature.

To list off a few of the differences:

1) The Redwall world is basically Great Britain, with some overseas adventures thrown in (most notably the Monitors). My world is similar in principle, but starkly different in that it portrays North America. Thus, instead of wildcats, stoats, etc., you end up with some new animals like coyotes, skunks, and raccoons, for example. As drastic a difference as this might sound, though, it is probably the least important change.

2) The world is more advanced technologically. Just like how the Redwall series sometimes blurs the technological timeline (having knightly arming swords and Renaissance rapiers at the same time), my story probably will as well, but the characters are going to be in the "gun"' phase of development. Many will have only one or two shot weapons, some may rely on flintlocks or blunderbusses, and a few might have 19th-century six-shooters, but the overall change is going to mean that paw-to-paw combat isn't the end-all. The corsairs will still have their cutlasses, and most of the guns won't be exceptionally powerful (their real-life counterparts often weren't), but this will definitely influence the feel of things. I admit that the reason for this is partly experimental -- I remembered one person commenting that Redwall with guns probably wouldn't feel like Redwall, and I wanted to put that theory to the test.

3) There are fewer "good" species. Under my classification system, basically only pure herbivores and insectivores unreservedly qualify as 'good', meaning that some species (squirrels, otters, chipmunks) are shifted over to the new "grey" category. This has implications of its own, which I'll try to go into shortly. Something that's worth mentioning is that badgers, being omnivores and relatively frequent predators, classify in my system as a villainous species! To balance these inequalities out, I figured I would add dogs to the good side -- while it is true that they are carnivores, and are normally predators too, the domestic dog represents loyalty, protection, and the curbing of aggression to benefit society at large, things well-befitting heroes. Anyway, I have coyotes and plenty of other canines if I want villains.

4) As alluded to above, species are not necessarily black and white. I expect most of the villain species will stay villains -- after all, they're either carnivores or vermin, or both -- but there should be species that could go either way, and even 'good' races, while generally on the right side, may not be 100% with it like they are now. If Sheriff John the hound is investigating a murder, and the suspects are Mark the mouse, Riverblaze the otter, and Sawtooth the weasel, it shouldn't be completely obvious from the beginning who's responsible. The odds are still pretty good the weasel had been involved, but it still might have been the otter or even the mouse. The idea is to have good characters, more than good species.

5) I want to try to keep a more realistic size scale between the creatures, so that mice and shrews are tiny, followed by much larger rats, who in turn are dwarfed by hares/jackrabbits, who are smaller than dogs, and so on. The guns somewhat balance things out, but if a rat gets in a physical fight with a shrew, he should have a huge advantage. If a cougar is chasing a mouse-run train, it'd be roughly equivalent to a dragon pursuing a cart.

At what point, if any, do these changes make you think, "Nope, that's definitely not Redwall" -- and why?

I wouldn't really like the idea of it. It would seem too much like "talking animals come to town" or something. when you add a skunk, or something like that it makes it sound silly instead of a sensible turn in a book series. I do really like the idea of proportion, but maybe not so much at the same time. I think guns and more modern things would make it like water ship down.

[redwallgurl]

I understand what you mean about how the animals would change in size but what if you just do eachone like a few inches biger or something it would give the same advantage thing you were talking aobut but as other people said the shrew would then have a chance against a wolf

[BadgerLordFiredrake]

Each one around the same size would be better.  Guns might ruin it because they could shoot the Abbey or defend from it too easily.

[Jetthebinturong]

Are you ever going to write this? It sounds amazing!!!!!

[Rusvul]

I've always wanted a raccoon in one of the books- they're my favorite animal

a racoon lives near my apartment, I named it Morgan LaFitte, after the racoon swashbuckler in Pirate101 

[Romsca]

Certain Redwall characters could have actually had guns

[Rusvul]

Now I'm trying to imagine Pallum with a flintlock rifle XD!! Or, an otter rogue with a pair of pistols!!

[Romsca]

I'm being serious here! There were several vermin leaders who were from somewhere east... Maybe the guns were just so bad and inaccurate they just stopped using them

[Redwaller]

I don't like the idea of guns in Redwall, and Brian also explained why he didn't want other species in because they aren't native to Britain.

[Rusvul]

I'm being serious here! There were several vermin leaders who were from somewhere east... Maybe the guns were just so bad and inaccurate they just stopped using them

I agree, but I enjoy making jokes about just about everything. Sorry if I offended you.

I don't like the idea of guns in Redwall, and Brian also explained why he didn't want other species in because they aren't native to Britain.

In the original books, I'm glad there were no guns, and it makes sense to limit it to species that are from the same climate. However, in a Redwall-based fanfic, it's an interesting twist. It'd be bad if Brian Jaques did it, but a similar book with guns and different creatures is a great idea! (as long as it sticks to matchlocks, wheel locks, and flintlocks. after that, they were too accurate.)

[Redwaller]

Well, if you start introducing new species and new weapons, you can just start your own book serie! 

[Captain Tammo]

I like the changes you made! It's all about creating new boundaries!