Who would triumph? New topic, not a copy.

[Nightfire]

Okay, I know that there's another topic called 'who would win', about what would happen if two villians fought each other. This thread, however, is who would win if two goodbeasts fought each other?

I personally, would like to see Ranguvar Foeseeker duke it out with Boar the Fighter.

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Why wid they be fightin' in the firzt place? Did Gonff zteal a zlice o' cake from Sunflash, who got mad an' threw a pie at him, who ducked an' the pie inztead hit Dandin, who ztarted throwin' rotten tomatoez at Log-a-Log, who hit Martin over the head with zome zhrewbread, who recovered and poured ztrawberry cordial ontae him, who tripped over King MacPhearsome, who then got mad and zmashed Skipper into the cookin' pot, who waz quiet upzet over thiz an' took Friar Hugo'z ladle, who then kicked Lady Amber into zome mud, who then...

[Skalrag of Marshank]

Yep, pretty much.

[Log-a-Log]

As far Boar and Ranguvar go, it would be a brutal fight, but I think Boar would win (sorry Nightfire).

[Tiria Wildlough]

Tiria Wildlough and Ranguvar!
Yeah, I think Boar would win in a fight between him and Ranguvar. Size difference, you know.

[James Gryphon]

Right; there's no doubt about it in my mind.

The most we saw Ranguvar do, as far as combat achievements, was hold off part of the crew of Goreleech.

Boar, on the other hand, crushed a horde of searats, who were under the command of one of the most successful rat captains of all time. This was an exceptionally large horde, too, very probably more than on the ship Rawnblade destroyed.

Also, if Luke and if Martin were great swordfighters, Boar was much more so, because Martin himself thought that Boar was the greatest swordfighter alive.

To sum it up, if Luke had had Boar with him when he was on Goreleech, he wouldn't have needed to crash the ship into the rocks.

A more even matchup (though it would be good vs. evil) would be Ranguvar vs. Wearet, the slavemaster -- I think they're about even in their fighting characteristics, except the Wearet is probably more cunning, and Ranguvar is probably a bit more aggressive.

How about Martin the Warrior -- as of right before his fight with Tsarmina -- versus Rakkety Tam, right before he fought Gulo?

There is a definite size difference, and Rakkety Tam is probably the most competent non-badger main protagonist in the series, with the possible exceptions of Luke, Martin and Matthias (in Mattimeo). I'm not sure, though, if that's enough for the squirrel to win the day over the greatest warrior in Redwall's history.

[DanielofRedwall]

Boar > the Foeseeker.

Boar, well, what can I say? In Mossflower, he was described as the best warrior of his time (or something similar). That's pretty impressive, considering Martin was around during the time. Also, the size difference between Boar and Ranguvar is big, so Boar has an advantage there.

Rakkety Tam < Martin.

Martin, just because of how incredible a warrior he was. I mean, that sword dance he did in The Legend of Luke was just incredible. Rakkety Tam was great as well, but you can't go past Martin in a fight like this.

[Tiria Wildlough]

YOu didn't answer the question of Tiria Wildlough! Anyway...

[James Gryphon]

YOu didn't answer the question of Tiria Wildlough! Anyway...

I figured you were joking.

It depends on how far the combatants are from each other. At long or medium range, Wildlough ought to be able to win it with a throwing weapon, but at close range, Ranguvar would destroy her.

[Nightfire]

Okay, here is how I think the fight between Ranguvar and Boar would go, to answer all of your comments. Remember, neither of them has any weapons, save for their teeth and claws:

Boar charges Ranguvar. She is much smaller and lighter than he is, she she doges the lunge with ease, allowing his momentum to carry him past her. Ranguvar leaps onto the back of his neck, and bites him right at the base of his skull, where his spine is located. She force of the bite snaps his spine immediately, and Boar falls to the ground, dead. Ranguvar wins.

See? Unless, by any small sliver of a chance, Boar managed to grab this black streak of speed, then she would definitely win.

[James Gryphon]

Wow.

Just for a reminder, here's how Boar handles "smaller and lighter" opponents.

Martin came on guard. Moving in swiftly to take the badger by surprise, he lunged and stabbed forward.

Boar hardly seemed to move. With a flick of his fire iron he disarmed Martin, sending the sword spinning and pinning Martin against the wall in the same movement, the fire iron hovering a fraction away from the warrior mouse's right eye.

That's a lightning-fast move there. Since Ranguvar is smaller and, according to you, a "streak of speed", then logically Martin, who is even smaller and thus logically faster than a squirrel, should be able to dash all around Boar, yet that clearly is not what happened.

Your fight analysis is based on several assumptions, first that Boar would ineptly "lunge" when we know he's a masterful fighter and wouldn't recklessly and blindly charge into anything. Secondly, that even if he was to, that Ranguvar would be able to dodge it. Thirdly, that after somehow doing the aforementioned, she would somehow be able to "leap on the back of his neck" (something that takes time, and is not easy; I might remind you that Ferahgo the Assassin, a much more experienced fighter than Ranguvar, and unlike the squirrel, a veteran badger-killer, tried to gather up the nerve to do the same thing to Urthwyte, and took so long that he failed), squirrels, Bloodwrath or no, very likely do not have the bite force to do what you described. Badgers have a very thick hide and I doubt a squirrel would be able to inflict the kind of damage you describe before being intercepted and crushed to death.

Besides, at no point in Legend of Luke does Ranguvar really demonstrate the cleverness or the cunning to deal with a skilled fighter. Her fighting style is essentially the same as Cregga Rose Eyes; "I'll get really angry and hit them with my paws." Sure, she did fine against the crew of Goreleech, but it's one thing to deal with a bunch of inept, lazy vermin, who're used to fighting helpless creatures, and another thing to take on possibly the most dangerous Badger Lord of all time.

[Nightfire]

Mice are actually slower than squirrels. Proven fact.

[James Gryphon]

Not relative to their size.

With the Redwall scale, the two are closer together in size, but a mouse, like Martin, has much greater speed relative to his body than a squirrel; thus, following this logic, Martin (or Luke) would be twice as fast as Ranguvar and could move so fast that none of the larger animals could likely even perceive him moving. However, this clearly did not happen.

I might mention, while we're at it, another famous squirrel, and a certain wolverine. If anything, the fight was more fair than the one you've mentioned, since Tam had Martin's invincible, infinitely sharp sword and a shield, and the wolverine started out armed with only his natural weapons. Gulo also was not nearly as bright or experienced as Boar. Yet Rakkety Tam had no special speed advantage, and certainly didn't slice Gulo to pieces the way your comments logically suggest he should have been able to.

Now, this is moot if we assume Ranguvar Foeseeker is many times faster than one of the most skilled warrior squirrels to ever emerge from the Highlands.

However, I personally don't buy into that.

[Captain Tammo]

How about

Joseph the bellmaker vs. Russa Nodrey

[Nightfire]

Russa would win. Again, I might be biased. But I seriously think that she has a better advantage. Another interesting fight would be:

Martin the Warrior vs. Martin II