Forum Elections: The Cellars

[Hickory]

While we wait foor Mr. Binturog's answer, here's one for Mr. Soren: Will the Sørenian Star mepire play a role in your military command?

[Banya]

I have included a poll, and I ask the citizens of the Cellars to vote on whether the future President of the Cellars should be assisted by a V.P.  The potential V.P.'s duties will be to carry out the President's orders and projects in an official capacity and to become acting President in the event the President posts an extended absence in the Front Lawns. 

The Cellars Council serves to assist the President.  Positions are still open for citizens who seek an active role in the Cellars Governing structure.

There are two ways of selecting a Vice President: he or she may be chosen by the President and may run alongside him in the official election this weekend, or he may be the runner-up to the winner of the official election.  If the citizens vote to have a V.P., these two options will go into the poll Thursday evening, when this poll expires.  If, by the evening of Thursday, June 4, the citizens have chosen not to have a V.P., the poll will be blank until the official election takes place.

*bangs gavel*

[Hickory]

I assume members of the Council are restrained from voting?

[Jetthebinturong]

And back to our interview! Mr. Binturog, what's your opinion on the Olden Inn? Seveeral weeks or maybe even months ago in was temporarily shut down due ot inactivity and possible illicit activities, but it's obviously a good place to advertise and convert into an impromptu HQ. Do you plan to make use of it or "revive" it should you be elected?

I had not considered the Olden Inn but it is probably good that it has been revived. That being said I do not think it is my place to take over anyone else's property and thus shall not be using it as my HQ.

[Hickory]

What might happen should Ms. Nodrey declare her alliance with your campaign platform? Speking of which, what is the name of your party?

[Banya]

I assume members of the Council are restrained from voting?

All citizens, including councilmembers and candidates, may and are encouraged to vote.

[Jetthebinturong]

What might happen should Ms. Nodrey declare her alliance with your campaign platform? Speking of which, what is the name of your party?

We do not currently have an official name. I've decided to dub us the Green party for the time being given my nature and also the nature of my RL political views.

[Banya]

A reminder to the candidates that rebuttals are currently taking place.  A review of the current subject can be found here.
It is notable that the stances of the candidates do not vary greatly on this subject.  Do I take this to mean that rebuttals are unnecessary and the next question should be introduced?  I need only two candidates say "Aye" to approve this motion.

[The Skarzs]

Eye.

[Jetthebinturong]

Aye.

[Wylder Treejumper]

I have included a poll, and I ask the citizens of the Cellars to vote on whether the future President of the Cellars should be assisted by a V.P.  The potential V.P.'s duties will be to carry out the President's orders and projects in an official capacity and to become acting President in the event the President posts an extended absence in the Front Lawns. 

The Cellars Council serves to assist the President.  Positions are still open for citizens who seek an active role in the Cellars Governing structure.

There are two ways of selecting a Vice President: he or she may be chosen by the President and may run alongside him in the official election this weekend, or he may be the runner-up to the winner of the official election.  If the citizens vote to have a V.P., these two options will go into the poll Thursday evening, when this poll expires.  If, by the evening of Thursday, June 4, the citizens have chosen not to have a V.P., the poll will be blank until the official election takes place.

*bangs gavel*

Ahem. Miss Banya. You state in the poll that the position of vice president could be necessary because "The President should not have all the power," and a system of checks and balances should be enacted. I note, however, that the office of vice president provide no checks or balances upon the power of the President. Rather, the vice president simply carries out the instructions of the president (and, in the case of a VP chosen by the president, would be immediately subordinate anyways), and would have acting power only in the case that the president is for some reason absent. A subordinate cannot provide checks or balances to a superior- only an equal but seperate power can. My question, then is this: Is the statement in the poll incorrect, or is the statement on the duties of the vice-president incorrect?

[Banya]

The candidates have approved the motion to move forward.  Our next question is from Mr. Mousethief, an esteemed poet who devotes his energy to working for liberty from oppressors.  His question:

How would you feel if you lost, and the ideas you wanted went south?

The candidates may now answer.
*bangs gavel*

A question from a citizen to the debate moderator:

Ahem. Miss Banya. You state in the poll that the position of vice president could be necessary because "The President should not have all the power," and a system of checks and balances should be enacted. I note, however, that the office of vice president provide no checks or balances upon the power of the President. Rather, the vice president simply carries out the instructions of the president (and, in the case of a VP chosen by the president, would be immediately subordinate anyways), and would have acting power only in the case that the president is for some reason absent. A subordinate cannot provide checks or balances to a superior- only an equal but seperate power can. My question, then is this: Is the statement in the poll incorrect, or is the statement on the duties of the vice-president incorrect?

I stated no such thing in the poll; the concept of checks and balances exists for those who believe that having two high governmental authorities, especially two who are not cohorts, is better than one.  As to the actual implementation of checks and balances: when the V.P. steps in as acting Presidents, it is his goals he seeks to achieve, not the formal President's.  While the President is in office, the V.P. works toward the goals of the President's campaign, as was stated.  This does not make him a messenger or employee of the President; he is a public official, and it is not what he does and second-in-command, but it is how he chooses to do it and whom he relies on.

[The Skarzs]

How would you feel if you lost, and the ideas you wanted went south?

Nondescript.

[Wylder Treejumper]

I state that the VP would not provide checks or balances upon the power of the president mainly for this reason: If the president, as executive, enacted some sort of legislation not desirable to for the forum, the VP would not have the power to overule that legislation. Also, when the president is absent there is no check upon the power of the VP as acting president.

As a philosopher who has studied Rennaisance political philosphy, upon which this governmental sysytem is based, I note that the system of checks and balances (More properly called seperation of powers) is requisite upon the distribution of powers equally among different branches of government. Having one executive is necessary to ensure the vigorous execution of the law: If two, or a council, served as the exectutive branch, they could come to an unresolveable disagreement and so obstruct the execution of the law perpetually. Because the VP is in the same executive branch as the President, he cannot provide effective checks and balances without fundamentally weakening the execution of the law. Therefore checks and balances require the establishment of other branches of government (i.e. legislative, judicial) with equal powers to the executive.

For details, see Montesquieu.

[Jetthebinturong]

How would you feel if you lost, and the ideas you wanted went south?

Um... it wouldn't effect me at all.

You guys realise this will change nothing right? The VP discussion is pointless as there will not actually be any power exherted. If this turns out to be not the case I'm leaving the Cellars, I don't want someone to impose their will on it.