Confederate Flag

Hickory · July 11, 2015, 03:47:43 PM

A very, very important event happened yesterday.

Seven South Carolina State Troopers, two of whom were black, hoisted down the Confederate Flag from the pole outside the state house. The lowering of this flag is the lowering of the history of a bloody, four-year war that happened because of segregation and slavery. This war resulted in 620,000 American lives lost, that number only surpassed by the Vietnam War. Let's remember those lives lost.

Dannflower Reguba · July 11, 2015, 04:08:35 PM

First question: Do you want to start an all-out forum war? Because with all due respect, that's very likely to happen with a topic and first post like this.

Second question: Do you actually know what the Confederate flag stands for? Because it isn't blood and slavery.

I'm a born and bred Wisconsinite, but I can still understand why some people in the South take pride in their heritage. It isn't about war or controversial topics, it's about a separation from a state that the people at the time disagreed with. In a way, it's a homage to what America used to stand for, the ability of the people as a whole to take control of the government.

I'm no expert on the topic, but celebrating the downing of someone else's history as a representation of a war that the flag did not symbolize is a bit inflammatory.

Hickory · July 11, 2015, 04:19:10 PM

Thanks for the criticism.

No, I don't mean to start a war, and when I said the "blood and slavery" part I meant it metaphorically. I only meant the flag's American history, not the entire history of it. If you take offense from my post, I'm sorry. If you want me to edit the post, I'll do that. So, for now, let me rephrase.

The lowering of this flag is a step in a better direction, according to many Southerners at the flag pole when they took the flag down.

Jukka the Sling · July 11, 2015, 04:26:10 PM

(This post is not meant to be inflammatory. It's just my honest opinion.)

The banning of the Confederate flag is flat-out stupid. There are so many more important things to worry about these days. The Confederate flag did not cause the Charleston shooting. Why the overreaction? It's completely crazy.

As a side note, someone went to Walmart and asked for a Confederate flag cake. They were rejected. Then they asked for a cake with the flag of a certain terror organization on it, and they gladly made it for them. Now, it's likely that it was just the fault of one employee who didn't recognize the terrorist flag. But it goes to show how America has gotten its priorities completely out of whack.

Izeroth · July 11, 2015, 04:27:16 PM

I understand that some people see the flag as part of their culture, but I still think it had to go. The flag, as far as I know, was created for use by the CSA during the Civil War.... And they lost the war. With that in mind, wouldn't having a Confederate flag up in the state capitol be a little like waving a Soviet flag around after the fall of the USSR?

Kitsune · July 11, 2015, 06:30:07 PM

*Puts hands over face and shakes head* Not another one of these...

This is going to be ugly.

Hickory · July 11, 2015, 06:40:14 PM

I guess I'm new enough that I have t seen this "battle" before. Sorry.

James Gryphon · July 11, 2015, 07:14:13 PM

I used to feel more sympathetic to the Confederacy, but as I've grown older (and actually read their Constitution), I have a much more nuanced view of the war than I used to. The trouble with claiming the flag as a part of Southern heritage is that the only right the states wanted to protect was their 'right' to own slaves. The very phrase "states' rights" has been misused as a euphemism for institutional racism for over a century.

That said, I understand most people who support the flag are just brandishing it as a general anti-government, pro-Southern culture statement. I also don't see how the Confederate flag relates to anything that happened recently. We're allegedly adults. If you want to get rid of the flag, just say it; don't pretend like it was somehow the cause of the tragedy at Charleston.

Jukka the Sling · July 11, 2015, 07:44:11 PM

Quote from: James Gryphon on July 11, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
I also don't see how the Confederate flag relates to anything that happened recently. We're allegedly adults. If you want to get rid of the flag, just say it; don't pretend like it was somehow the cause of the tragedy at Charleston.

Exactly. And why did it take this terrible event to get rid of the flag? It's been around for years without the huge outcry raised because of that nut's actions. (By the way, because of a mistake with the FBI, he was allowed to purchase the handgun used in the shooting. If that mistake hadn't been made, it's quite possible the shooting wouldn't have happened.)

I'm just sick of the powers that be taking away everyone's freedoms of expression (unless, of course, you're an atheist or a member of a certain terror organization). >.<

BadgerLordFiredrake · July 11, 2015, 08:24:08 PM

What do you mean by athiests' freedoms of expression?

What did the Confederate flag (and the CSA) stand for besides being allowed to own another human being?

Jukka the Sling · July 11, 2015, 09:32:13 PM

Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 11, 2015, 08:24:08 PM
What do you mean by athiests' freedoms of expression?

What did the Confederate flag (and the CSA) stand for besides being allowed to own another human being?

I mean, basically, that they're purging government buildings and all that of even the slightest vestiges of Christianity, all in the name of "separation of church and state" (which was NOT how the Founding Fathers intended that to be interpreted). Of course, it's the atheist groups who are supporting that. I'm sick of political correctness. The Confederate flag is just one more thing they've decided to crack down on, even though it has nothing to do with Christianity.

The Civil War wasn't all about slavery. People had different reasons for joining the war. Now, I don't know that much about the history of the Confederacy, so I'd have to look into it before saying any more.

I could very well be wrong about the flag, but I see it as yet another example of extreme political correctness when there are far, far more important issues at stake than banning a flag.

Jetthebinturong · July 11, 2015, 10:02:41 PM

I agree that you banning the flag isn't a very important issue, but in the words of it's creator:

"As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race."

Skyblade · July 11, 2015, 10:03:39 PM

I have no idea what you all are even talking about, to be honest. But I know you all are civil, nice, and respectful people. So please. Don't let this escalate. I know all Sage wanted from this was a calm discussion.

(I feel like I'm mini-modding, but I'm just trying to make everything better)

BadgerLordFiredrake · July 12, 2015, 02:27:40 AM

Quote from: Jukka the Sling on July 11, 2015, 09:32:13 PM
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 11, 2015, 08:24:08 PM
What do you mean by athiests' freedoms of expression?

What did the Confederate flag (and the CSA) stand for besides being allowed to own another human being?
I mean, basically, that they're purging government buildings and all that of even the slightest vestiges of Christianity, all in the name of "separation of church and state" (which was NOT how the Founding Fathers intended that to be interpreted). Of course, it's the atheist groups who are supporting that. I'm sick of political correctness. The Confederate flag is just one more thing they've decided to crack down on, even though it has nothing to do with Christianity.

The Civil War wasn't all about slavery. People had different reasons for joining the war. Now, I don't know that much about the history of the Confederacy, so I'd have to look into it before saying any more.

I could very well be wrong about the flag, but I see it as yet another example of extreme political correctness when there are far, far more important issues at stake than banning a flag.

Give me examples of the "purging", please? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" in any case. I doubt anyone can say exactly what long-dead people wanted. Times have changed, too - there's no way they could have predicted a lot of what is going on right now.

Tell me a single thing that the Civil War was about besides slavery (or something stemming from the debates regarding)

Wylder Treejumper · July 12, 2015, 02:34:50 AM

I honestly don't feel this topic to be that controversial. I mean, I in no way support the South, I get annoyed with Rednecks that drive around with Confederate flags flying from their pickups- but I feel keeping the flag at the state capitol is justified. It is a part of our history, and history should be studied, not buried.

Regardless of my views on the flag, the Civil War was definitely a war over slavery. Slavery was the South's economic lifeblood at the time (Thank you, Eli Whitney), and they feared the addition of free states would cause an imbalance against them- thus they utilized an excuse of states' rights to justify secession.

News:

Confederate Flag