The Pro Role Playing Discussion

[LT Sandpaw]

Before you read the following post please note it is longer then a normal post and some of my points may be disagreed with. I want you honest opinion on everything. Thank you.





Hello my fellow RPers, I (as most of you know) am 1st Lieutenant Sandpaw and I've created this topic to in general discuss Role Playing as a whole. I would like to cover my complaints on RPing and also my compliments, as well as some questions about the writing as a whole. So I'll jump right in.


Complaints: Okay so when I gripe about something it may sound as if I'm griping at a specific person, I'm not, so please don't take offence. Right so I'll start on the players themselves.

I've noticed (and I am guilty of doing this myself) that many RPers will never let anything bad happen to their character. How is this a problem you ask? Well when we are doing a Role Play there is usually a supposed villain and a supposed hero, on occasion there is no black and white difference. However to make any story work the hero has to suffer to achieve their goals (and not just losing an ear) but to actually lose, to fail and need encouragement or a pep talk to succeed.

Once upon a time I took a story writing class and my teacher told me something very important. We as writers grow far too fond of our characters. We... Not on purpose or because we mean to do this... Self-consciously protect our characters from harm, we don't like seeing them hurt or seeing them fail. But readers or our audience loves seeing that character hurt, seeing them lose and fail. So as writers especially in fast pace RPs we need to let our characters fail sometimes.

Right so now that I'm done with that I would like to move onto my next complaint on the players which is interest in the RP. Now you might be going, "Huh? What do ya mean Sandpaw?" Well one of my biggest pet peeves is characters that literally seem to be bored with the story, and a bored character means a boring story which means a uninteresting RP which means the other characters will grow bored with that RP Which equals= dead RP.

Now before you flip a lid let me explain, you yourself may be very interested in the RP, you may love it, but your character is bland and uninteresting, and when your only purpose in the RP is to Be There You've got a problem. This may be different for some of you but I find the most interesting RPs are the ones that are fun to read, the ones where things are exciting and guess what, the heroes are struggling. So if your character isn't doing something for the story and are there just there to be there, you might as well take them out because they will kill that RP.

I understand that as a Player in a RP you're in you don't want to ruin the RPs flow and mess with the story. Well guess what. 90% of the time Planed RP stories suck, yes I said it 90% of the time the stories are awful, and guess what else 60% of the time Rps don't even have story lines they just kind of go with the flow! What makes them great are the characters that are being played. So as long as you're not nuking the world and changing the entire history Gamemasters will appreciate some new story development. So what do we have so far?

1, Make your character suffer!

2, Be in the PR, don't just be present!

3, Make things happen!

Right so I've probably insulted a few people already but I'm not done so read on.

RP Stories, okay so you're sitting there thinking to yourself, oh man I want to start a RP story and make it not sound like a soap opera. Heh. Good luck, I haven't seen many RP stories worth anything. If you want an example lets go with some of the popular RPs that are happening right now.
Foreign Intrusion: Bad guys come from another land and attack Mossflower, story end.
See what I mean, unless you add the wolf and cougar at odds, one fighting to conquer and the other to save, see the armies of mixed creatures and how they act under their respective rulers, watch as the hares now homeless attempt to get along with the cougar, listen to the characters on the walls and understand their confusion as things go down. How about the next one.

Siege on the Mountain: Bad guys come from somewhere else and attack Mossflower, story end. Okay I rest my case, think about these RP stories, they are very similar aren't they, but totally different because of the Characters! A good story is an important to start an RP but if the characters are bad the RP will be bad. If the characters are good the RP will be good. End of story.

So what do we have now?

1, Make your character suffer

2, Be in the PR, don't just be present!

3, Make things happen!

4, Try hard on stories, try harder on characterization!


Well that would be the end of my most prominent complaints, what are your Rping complaints? Is there something you would like to get off your chest? Something that bugs you? If it is a certain person or myself please just send a PM.




Right now that I'm though complaining let's start with the compliments.

Once again I'll start with the players, so I think I've already made this point many times but a good cast makes a great RP. A great cast makes an excellent RP. And an excellent cast makes a grand RP. I must say that though I have yet to see a grand RP I have seen many excellent RPs some of which have sadly died. But it's not just the characters that make a RP but the players behind them. I'm sorry but I'm going to use names here.

If say Skarzs was to create a new RP with a bland story he will still get more people to join then if Rrrrr started a RP with an amazing story. Why? Because Skarzs is an accomplished RPer and has shown writing skill on many occasions and to put it bluntly. People would trust his RP more than Rrrrr's (No hard feelings Rrrrr you're pretty good too)

So if you're new to Rping or your struggling to make interesting characters go back and read past RPs with accomplished RPers, see how they made their characters how they wrote their posts and so on. It may prove helpful in the long run.

Right so next is a specific compliment to specific players, I won't name names but you know who you are. I just want to congratulate the people who go along with what someone else is trying to do even when it's clear that wasn't what they were planning. (Something I struggle with) You've got real writing talent and humility and instead of just butting heads with the other player you let them do what they wanted to do. *Claps*

Right so the next compliment is to all RPers and the time commitment they put into making these stories. There is nothing more gratifying to a Gamemaster then an active cast that helps them out instead of dragging them down. So here's to all you. *Claps*

Right so now I'm done with that (I might add to both in time) I would like to hear your thoughts, what do you like about RPs? What do you dislike? Is there something you would really like to see but just don't know how to put it?

Right so one last thing, what is your favorite RP character from this forum and what is your favorite RP from this forum, your allowed to put your own characters and RPs.

That will be all for now.

~ 1st Lieutenant Sandpaw Mathion Ledary

[Skyblade]

Wow. Very interesting essay and great thread idea.

I agree with you on many of these topics. I get a bit frustrated when people don't have interest and sometimes I feel like one of the only ones doing stuff. That's probably me overreacting, though

I don't have a favorite RP character other than my own; I usually tend to like those who are relatable. My favorite RP is Crossover, of course. Personally, I think I've done ok-ish with Fritz.

[Jetthebinturong]

Agreed, a brilliant story with awful characters becomes a bad story, and vice versa.

On the suffering thing: A rule I stick to is that if something good happens to a character, they have to pay for it later on, even if it's much later on. Think of it like Newton's Third Law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Though maybe not so much with the equal and opposite thing but you get the gist.

I do become attached to my characters though and it may be a little weird that I actually enjoy putting them through Hell. Weird because I like them and still enjoy it, I mean.

[Cornflower MM]

Honestly? One of my biggest complaints? One-liners. They drive me nuts. The sad thing? I've done more than my fair share of them - And I still do a LOT of one-liners. I'm trying!

A lot of your points make sense, and I applaud you for having the courage to point them out! You have no idea how many times I just nodded.

Looking back a few of the best, the most fun,  RPs I've been in here, I admit: There were times we didn't let our characters suffer enough (*cough* Autumn Harvest *cough*) and, honestly? Times when we may have tortured our characters TOO much. (Like AWTFYH)

And, I'm sorry, but I do have to stick up for my RP here. I, when creating an RP, have a general idea - And I run with it. In my experience, a lot of the RPs that have the plot waaay detailed out, well. . . . They just didn't go very far. But let's look at. . .  *Casts for an example that isn't SotM* Um, fine, let's go with Siege on the Mountain. I don't have much plot at all there, just some general idea of were it's going to go. That leaves a ton of room for plot twists, players to shock people. . . . . To have fun.

So as long as you're not nuking the world and changing the entire history Gamemasters will appreciate some new story development

As the starter of three RPs, I say this: YES! DO WHATEVER THAT PLAN IN YOUR HEAD IS! Okay, yeah, you might want to tell the GM that you're planning to do something, but they don't need the specifics.
And now let;s look at AWTFYH: For a while, we seriously had no GM. Now, Dan is serving as GM. But seriously, for a while, we had no one to really nudge us in the 'right direction.' And now look at it! AWTFYHP2 is . . . . Yeah, I'm gonna brag: One of the spectacular RPs I've ever seen. (It's also a lot of fun to RP) I read back over it, and I had a wonderful trip back down Memory Lane. (Just don't read part one of A Winter To Freeze Your Heart. The beginning is cringe-worthy.)

And yeah, I'm rambling. Wah.

[Hickory]

Now I want to hurt one of my characters in an RP, but it's an RP with only two RPers at the moment, so putting one of my characters out of the action is a little stupid.  

[Skyblade]

Do you guys have any feedback for the Crossover RP? And Fritz? He's honestly probably my best RP character..

[The Skarzs]

May you please rephrase this, Sandpaw? It is a little confusing to understand.

If you want an example lets go with some of the popular RPs that are happening right now.
Foreign Intrusion: Bad guys come from another land and attack Mossflower, story end.
See what I mean, unless you add the wolf and cougar at odds, one fighting to conquer and the other to save, see the armies of mixed creatures and how they act under their respective rulers, watch as the hares now homeless attempt to get along with the cougar, listen to the characters on the walls and understand their confusion as things go down.

[LT Sandpaw]

Certainly Skarzs,    Okay so the point your referring too is a perfect example of a typo when transferring from a word doc. to the forum, there are a few words missing that might be why it is slightly more confusing then it should be.

Here is the proper paragraph, I will edit in my original post as well.

If you want an example lets go with some of the popular RPs that are happening right now.
Foreign Intrusion: Bad guys come from another land and attack Mossflower, story end.
See what I mean, unless you add the wolf and cougar at odds, one fighting to conquer and the other to save, see the armies of mixed creatures and how they act under their respective rulers, watch as the hares now homeless attempt to get along with the cougar, listen to the characters on the walls and understand their confusion as things go down. Without the involvement of good solid characters the story means nothing.

Now I must ask do you want me to rephrase the paragraph itself as in describing what I meant or does this fix it?

Now I want to hurt one of my characters in an RP, but it's an RP with only two RPers at the moment, so putting one of my characters out of the action is a little stupid. 

No,no,no your missing what I meant Sagetip, its not that we want to see your characters get injured but to see them fail and to come back from that failure to suffer from that failure, mental and emotional pain in much more effective then physical pain though if your a skilled writer physical pain can be used just as effectively.

Do you guys have any feedback for the Crossover RP? And Fritz? He's honestly probably my best RP character..

Ah yes the Crossover RP, the story itself is decent if not utterly understandable but as I've said before its the characters that make the story so I'll review them. I'll have my review typed up by tonight.


@Cornflor, Exactly, the RPs aren't dependent on a amazing story but they are dependent on the characters, if you can get the players to add in those twists and turns it doesn't matter what your story is, the RP will be interesting to play and fun to read.   


@Jett Thanks, I agree fully it is almost a learned skill to make characters suffer, the author of the Harry Potter books was once asked (Not exact quote) "If you could speak to Harry what would you say to him?" And the author replied "I would apologies for everything I put him though."

BTW your point on Newton's third law is very good, I'm going to have to remember that one.

[Skyblade]

Looking forward to the review! (Kind of, I'm nervous but I need to take it like a man).

Also, Jet's point is interesting.

I try to make my characters realistic..

[The Skarzs]

Right, well, I would like to say that the antagonist isn't trying to attack Mossflower in Foreign Intrusion. And how does it lack good, solid characters? There has been a lack of activity, so no character development has been taking place, but what do you mean that it is without good solid characters?

[rrrrr]

-_-

OK.

[LT Sandpaw]

 
@Skarzs, okay my friend I want you to understand something, I was crediting your story on good characters while critiquing the fact that most (Not all) RP story's are bad. I wasn't saying anything about your RP being bad, it is actually quite good. Anywho..

Surely there's some complaints out there or even some compliments c'mon don't be shy.

[Skyblade]

I for one commend the points you've made; they're quite valid. Thanks for posting this!

[LT Sandpaw]

Okay Sky here tis, Not my best work but...

review

Okay then a critical review for Skyblade on her Crossover Role Play. Keep in mind I'm not master of all Role Plays and I'm only going off what I like to see in a RP.

Let's start off with the story, Crossover is essentially a story where characters each from their separate universe are transported to the Real World and are set on a quest to return to their homeland. Beset by idiotic Police Officers, Street Gangs armed with Paintguns and a host of other unimaginably dangerous every day criminals. (Also News reporters they somehow end up getting on the wrong side of our gang as well.) The heroes struggle on in their desperate fight to get home.

What do I think about the story? Well I'll say it's different for sure. One thing I have noticed many times in RPs is that the story hold very little merit for the actual RP, even though the plot is somewhat strange and definitely random (Which adds a certain appeal) It has retained its focus, the end question (will they make it home and if they do how many of them will make it?) Is still in play and the characters are defiantly struggling for that goal.

Certain parts of the story do bother me as an overabundance of convenience such as the fact they found a newspaper clipping that same evening in the middle of the woods. Or the fact that a minivan was just sitting there with the keys inside asking to be stolen. These incidents can be overlooked by the humor and real story making that followed which makes up for a lot of the storyline. (Personally I think it would have been downright hilarious if they had stolen a News Van which are left running and would have plenty of room but alas it cannot be helped)

Alright so now I will move too King Fritz. Well a lot can be said about Fritz and his little group of misfits both good and bad, one point I would like to make is that King Fritz is a character with a physical problem. I am impressed how Sky has manipulated the fact that he limps into the story and how as leader he attempts to hide his struggle. This is excellent characterization with him being too stubborn to ask for help and him being too proud to show he is hurting. This attitude is actually common and it helps Fritz's POV tremendously.

What of the rest of the cast, well since I am in it I can't review this without being biased so I'll do a brief overview of what I thought before I joined the RP. The cast up to that point consisted mostly consisted of a strange host which really did not work together well. One of the struggles in the RP itself may very well have been something going on for the writers. Most of these characters have issues that would normally land them in an insane asylum... They argued with each other and at times nearly came to blows. This was mostly done by Eul's character Jackie and Jets character Callum*, The two clashing over simple things was a real boost to the story and to the other characters as well as they attempted to control their fiery companions. And I think I'm not the only one to laugh when Jackie said,

"Though I hate to agree with him Callum might be right."

And though the other characters have their moments within the RP it is those two that really help bring the story along. So anyway with those few things in the open my ratings will cover Story Plot, Characters, Characterization, and Story Flow.

Story Plot: 4/10, The reason I give it such a high score at all is because it is much more defined then  a normal Role Play and that gives it merit.

Characters: 5/10, this one was hard to score because a few of the characters were not original, however on the few that were complete original characters they were well done and interesting characters.

Characterization: 7/10, now this is one of the best things in the RP, the characters have remained interesting and new not allowing readers to guess what they will do next.

Story Flow: 6/10 I like how the RP can maintain its appeal while moving forward with the original plot. The events and struggles continue to happen and everything usually seems to happen in sequence with a few random event here and there.

Over All RP: 5/10, Well Sky I have to admit you have created a rather excellent RP and one I'm glad I'm a part of. Have a good day.

~ 1st Lieutenant Sandpaw Mathion Ledary

[close]

[Skyblade]

Thank you tremendously for the review, Sand! It's truly nice to get feedback Happy to have you with us for the RP.