Tougher Vermin?

[Vilu Daskar]

Does it seem like vermin might have been tougher in Redwall to anyone else? Apparently it's a big deal that Cluny killed a ferret, but in the other books no one would have cared.

[Tam and Martin]

That is a good point.

I think it might have been so. As several people have pointed out, the first Redwall book was a start of a long series, thus BJ was figuring everything out that he wanted to include or exclude. That's why we see mentions of the mice having farm animals, and other various flaws. Maybe Brian was planning on having a special ranking for the vermin, ie. maybe rats would be the lowest order and then ferrets, stoats, weasels, and maybe a wearet or a wolverine at the top, I don't know. Kind of like a food chain for animal rankings. Curious thought though. I think as he got more developed in the books, Brian decided to just have them all equal in rank instead of having different leveled classes.

[Sanddunes]

I wise the Vermin were tougher one of the problems I had with these books is that the most villains were pretty much all the same just change the species.

[Ashleg]

I think there was a wide range in villains: from the ones that could effortlessly snap your back to the ones who are so weak they end up as comic relief (or good guys).

[Delthion]

So good guys are weak?

[Ashleg]

Yes.

Or Sues.

[Sanddunes]

I think there was a wide range in villains: from the ones that could effortlessly snap your back to the ones who are so weak they end up as comic relief (or good guys).

I wouldn't comic relief ones as villains. I just wise they were a lot better fighters at times

[Krantor the Brutal]

Personally, I think a vermin lord is strong in the beginning of the book, but eventually weakens and it becomes a 50/50 battle against the hero, (like in Pearls of Lutra and The Long Patrol.) Other times, it seems he/she is too strong and external aid and wit is needed, (like in Rakkety Tam, Mattimeo and Redwall.)

[Ashleg]

They usually lose their minds by the end of the book--and I don't blame them.

[Sanddunes]

Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention

[Ashleg]

Or it's made a big deal of and they turn out not to be brave at all.

[The Skarzs]

Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention

Yep. No vermin who is brave really ends up having that bravery come to use.

[Sanddunes]

Or it's made a big deal of and they turn out not to be brave at all.

it's rare but they are brave vermin like Barranca who are not in the book very long

[Sanddunes]

Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention

Yep. No vermin who is brave really ends up having that bravery come to use.

kind of explains why they're not plus they wouldn't have their fiends helping them unlike the woodlanders who are also far better fighters   

[Wylder Treejumper]

@Sanddunes: You know, you bring up a good point there. If a vermin does happen to be brave, it is very likely they will be the only brave one in their group. That means that any brave action they do would have to be done by themselves, because their comrades are presumably cowardly. This means that any brave action would be at an automatic disadvantage, because it instantly loses any power of numbers vermin might have.