POLL: If These Badgers were in a fight, who would win

[The Skarzs]

Weapon reach is a huge advantage in battle, and as long as Brocktree can keep his distance, even with only Sunflash in the Bloodwrath I think Lord Brocktree would defeat him, especially in unarmored combat.

If they were armored, Brocktree's reach advantage may still give him the win because, while it doesn't have the bludgeoning power of a mace, his sword can still cause some serious concussive damage through armor. And if we are to have them wear the armor that they were described as wearing in the books, Sunflash's chain mail would be rather inferior to Brocktree's plate armor.

[Wylder Treejumper]

It is highly dependent, really. When are we talking about? Sunflash at the beginning of Outcast? At the end? In armor? Without? Fighting with characteristic weapons, or equal weapons?

Overall, I'd say Brocktree has the advantage, simply because he appears to be highly familiar with his weapon and generally well versed in combat. Sunflash is, I think, stronger, but that strength can be turned against him by a skilled opponent.

And the sword is highly effective, because it has a greater reach, high weight and is sharp. Additionally, it can be used for lunging, which a mace is highly ineffective at. Thrusting is a major component of swordsmanship which is difficult to counter with a mace.

[James Gryphon]

@Skarzs: I actually hadn't thought about the possibility of there being any difference in armor quality. I'd have to reread it to know for sure, but I seemed to vaguely remember a picture of Sunflash in armor, and just assumed it was plate mail, same as the other badger lords I remember seeing. If it's only chainmail, then that is a big weakness.

I was thinking about questioning the sword's reach advantage, just based on the weapons' respective length (and admittedly not taking into consideration that the mace must be swung a greater distance for greatest effect), but without reading the books, and just going by their covers, I think I've already changed my mind... that sword is huge. If you go by the UK cover, it's about as long as Trunn's trident!

[Hickory]

Sunflash wears chainmail with a cast helmet and shoulders. Still incredibly cumbersome.

[LT Sandpaw]

Actually Sunflash might have the advantage if it comes to armor. Chainmail was created to stop thrusts and cuts from sword blades which negates some of the potential of Brocktree's massive sword. In fact if Brocktree was in full plate and Sunflash in chain it would turn into a slugging match, whose got the better speed, strength, and precision to provide enough impact damage to kill or maim the other badger. Sunflash's very name promotes the idea of his aggressive speed, and once he's in full bloodwrath one well placed blow from his mace and the battle is over.

As for skill levels we hardly know if Brocktree had proper swordsbeast training. Maybe he learned from his father, but that's hardly the same as years of serious battle training. On the other hand there is Sunflash who literally grew up fighting for survival, learning the tricks of battle through experience. He's naturally stronger, faster, and he's had rough paws on training from basically surviving, which is a far better trainer then any father-son bouts and tutoring.

If it was a up and at em fight I'd put my money on the big one.

[Wylder Treejumper]

We know he had battle training. Didn't you read about his fight with Ungatt Trunn?

In any case, plate armor is still better than chain, otherwise nobleman would have worn chain instead of plate. Plate was developed specifically to remedy certain defects in chainmail, such as its tendency to split and its uselessness against blunt force weapons.

Furthermore, being skewered on a swordpoint is prohibitive to victory.

[Hickory]

Wasn't chain intended for use against arrows?

[Delthion]

No, arrows could pierce chainmail and snap the links, at a decent range, English longbowmen could also pierce plate, but it is more resistant to arrows than chainmail. Chainmail was simply the form of armor that was a step up from scaled armor.

[The Skarzs]

Actuallly, it's more effective against slices, since the rings are more likely to deform from a thrust- a lot of force over a small area of contact- rather than a cut- a lot of force over a larger area of contact. Against broad heads, sure, it would work fine, but bodkin arrows can still penetrate the mail, and if they get through, they're the same thickness all the way down the shaft so there's little friction left to stop it moving through.

Actually Sunflash might have the advantage if it comes to armor. Chainmail was created to stop thrusts and cuts from sword blades which negates some of the potential of Brocktree's massive sword. In fact if Brocktree was in full plate and Sunflash in chain it would turn into a slugging match, whose got the better speed, strength, and precision to provide enough impact damage to kill or maim the other badger. Sunflash's very name promotes the idea of his aggressive speed, and once he's in full bloodwrath one well placed blow from his mace and the battle is over.
If it was a up and at em fight I'd put my money on the big one.

While chain mail may stop the sword from cutting through completely (although they will fail eventually), it does little to stop the force of the hit itself, meaning that bones can and will break from a blow. Since plate armor is solid rather than interlinked rings, it's going to transfer the force of a blow over a much greater area, thus effectively cutting the force of blows to about half; though, as Sunflash's mace is described as having bits of metal stuck in it, it's possible he could still penetrate it.

[alexandre]

     Boar was portrayed as a more skilled swordsbeast so I voted for him.

[Groddil]

Brocktree was still in his prime, and Boar was old when they both appeared, meaning Brock'd be stronger and faster than his son. On that line, Boar is only ever seen fighting searats, and Brocktree is more than capable of taking on wildcats.

My vote goes for Brock.

[alexandre]

The idea in the polls is that the badgers are both in there prime, sorry I didn't mention that before. Otherwise there is way to much bias if everyone just applies the badgers skills to the age they choose.

[Ashleg]

Brocktree was still in his prime, and Boar was old when they both appeared, meaning Brock'd be stronger and faster than his son. On that line, Boar is only ever seen fighting searats, and Brocktree is more than capable of taking on wildcats.

My vote goes for Brock.

My vote goes to Brocktree too, but I do have to chime in here.
(SPOILERS)
Damung was a rat and he blinded Cregga, whereas Ungatt the wildcat wound up begging for mercy and then had his back snapped.

[alexandre]

     This is about Ripfang, a seasoned Pirate, not some pirate's son who didn't really earn anything. Also, it is worth noting that yes, Trunn was a great general, but didn't practice fighting like Brocktree did, and Boar apeared to have much more skill with a sword, we only saw that in his old age so I can only imagine what it was like in his prime.

[Groddil]

     This is about Ripfang, a seasoned Pirate, not some pirate's son who didn't really earn anything. Also, it is worth noting that yes, Trunn was a great general, but didn't practice fighting like Brocktree did, and Boar apeared to have much more skill with a sword, we only saw that in his old age so I can only imagine what it was like in his prime.

Ripfang who, mind, is just as old as Boar, is just a normal rat (not extra large like Cluny), and would be outmatched by pretty much every major villain ever, especially wildcats like Trunn and Tsarmina.