POLL: If These Badgers were in a fight, who would win

[Ashleg]

Not much a fan of the crows but I can say that I liked Ironbeak a little.

[Lord Daskar]

Baliss.

[alexandre]

BALISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS WILL SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLAYY YOU ALL IF YOU DON'T CASSSSSSSSSSSSSST A VOTE FOR HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS AWESSSSSSSSSOMENESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Gonff the Mousethief]

Asmodeus was the first snake in Redwall, and he had the creepiest sort of tension surronding him the whole time that when they finally found that he had the sword, I remember gulping because they would have to confront the creature. Plus his death was one of the most iconic things in the Redwall series with the "He stabbed for Martin, he Stabbed for Redwall!" thing being just amazing.

[alexandre]

Asmodeus was the first snake in Redwall, and he had the creepiest sort of tension surronding him the whole time that when they finally found that he had the sword, I remember gulping because they would have to confront the creature. Plus his death was one of the most iconic things in the Redwall series with the "He stabbed for Martin, he Stabbed for Redwall!" thing being just amazing.

Spoiler

True, but Balisssssssss seemed to have much more stamina and strength then old Poisonteeth. He was blind and badly wounded from a hedgehog's spikes but he still managed to capture a raven and forced it to lead him to Korvus Skurr's lair with the intent of killing him. He battled a giant Catfish in the underground lake, which is no small accomplishment when you are blind, badly wounded and can't breath underwater. He slayed many birds and reptiles in the battle in the cave and was finally finished off when the cave collapsed. I remember reading Doomwhyte and thinking "wow, that is one tough snake".

[close]

[Gonff the Mousethief]

Asmodeus was the first snake in Redwall, and he had the creepiest sort of tension surronding him the whole time that when they finally found that he had the sword, I remember gulping because they would have to confront the creature. Plus his death was one of the most iconic things in the Redwall series with the "He stabbed for Martin, he Stabbed for Redwall!" thing being just amazing.

Spoiler

True, but Balisssssssss seemed to have much more stamina and strength then old Poisonteeth. He was blind and badly wounded from a hedgehog's spikes but he still managed to capture a raven and forced it to lead him to Korvus Skurr's lair with the intent of killing him. He battled a giant Catfish in the underground lake, which is no small accomplishment when you are blind, badly wounded and can't breath underwater. He slayed many birds and reptiles in the battle in the cave and was finally finished off when the cave collapsed. I remember reading Doomwhyte and thinking "wow, that is one tough snake".

[close]

Spoiler

True, very true. I guess its just that I didn't really like Doomwyte at all, and that he was used just for the villains without even really interacting with by a few of the heroes.

[close]

[James Gryphon]

Asmodeus was the first snake in Redwall, and he had the creepiest sort of tension surronding him the whole time that when they finally found that he had the sword, I remember gulping because they would have to confront the creature. Plus his death was one of the most iconic things in the Redwall series with the "He stabbed for Martin, he Stabbed for Redwall!" thing being just amazing.

Spoiler

True, but Balisssssssss seemed to have much more stamina and strength then old Poisonteeth. He was blind and badly wounded from a hedgehog's spikes but he still managed to capture a raven and forced it to lead him to Korvus Skurr's lair with the intent of killing him. He battled a giant Catfish in the underground lake, which is no small accomplishment when you are blind, badly wounded and can't breath underwater. He slayed many birds and reptiles in the battle in the cave and was finally finished off when the cave collapsed. I remember reading Doomwhyte and thinking "wow, that is one tough snake".

[close]

Spoiler

True, very true. I guess its just that I didn't really like Doomwyte at all, and that he was used just for the villains without even really interacting with by a few of the heroes.

[close]

Not entirely sure why everything is in spoilers

I don't think it's necessarily fair to rate Baliss definitively over Asmodeus just for going through circumstances that Asmodeus never faced. Asmodeus only appeared in a handful of scenes, against weak characters. Just because Asmodeus didn't do any of those feats doesn't mean he couldn't have. It isn't his fault that he never faced any serious opposition until Martin's Sword came along. I think saying that "Baliss seemed to have a lot more endurance and strength" is a little silly because we never see Asmodeus's endurance or strength tested, so we have no basis for comparing the two.

What we do have is reputation. And as far as Poisonteeth's reputation and feats go, we know he, a giant adder, reigned in terror over Mossflower, hypnotized Matthias (which I think is pretty good considering that other heroes, like Matthias' grandson, seem to be immune to that for some reason), and was recognized for countless seasons afterwards as the exemplar of giant adders -- Doomwyte makes a point of mentioning that Baliss was believed to be a descendant of said snake. That's a legacy of greatness... whereas after Baliss was gone, as far as we know, nobody ever thought about him again.

[close]

[Lord Daskar]

Asmodeus was the first snake in Redwall, and he had the creepiest sort of tension surronding him the whole time that when they finally found that he had the sword, I remember gulping because they would have to confront the creature. Plus his death was one of the most iconic things in the Redwall series with the "He stabbed for Martin, he Stabbed for Redwall!" thing being just amazing.

Spoiler

True, but Balisssssssss seemed to have much more stamina and strength then old Poisonteeth. He was blind and badly wounded from a hedgehog's spikes but he still managed to capture a raven and forced it to lead him to Korvus Skurr's lair with the intent of killing him. He battled a giant Catfish in the underground lake, which is no small accomplishment when you are blind, badly wounded and can't breath underwater. He slayed many birds and reptiles in the battle in the cave and was finally finished off when the cave collapsed. I remember reading Doomwhyte and thinking "wow, that is one tough snake".

[close]

Spoiler

True, very true. I guess its just that I didn't really like Doomwyte at all, and that he was used just for the villains without even really interacting with by a few of the heroes.

[close]

Not entirely sure why everything is in spoilers

I don't think it's necessarily fair to rate Baliss definitively over Asmodeus just for going through circumstances that Asmodeus never faced. Asmodeus only appeared in a handful of scenes, against weak characters. Just because Asmodeus didn't do any of those feats doesn't mean he couldn't have. It isn't his fault that he never faced any serious opposition until Martin's Sword came along. I think saying that "Baliss seemed to have a lot more endurance and strength" is a little silly because we never see Asmodeus's endurance or strength tested, so we have no basis for comparing the two.

What we do have is reputation. And as far as Poisonteeth's reputation and feats go, we know he, a giant adder, reigned in terror over Mossflower, hypnotized Matthias (which I think is pretty good considering that other heroes, like Matthias' grandson, seem to be immune to that for some reason), and was recognized for countless seasons afterwards as the exemplar of giant adders -- Doomwyte makes a point of mentioning that Baliss was believed to be a descendant of said snake. That's a legacy of greatness... whereas after Baliss was gone, as far as we know, nobody ever thought about him again.

[close]

Spoiler

I think it would be silly to say that Baliss does have more strength and endurance. It does seem like Baliss has more strength and endurance due to his circumstances you just don't know whether or not he actually does.

[close]

[alexandre]

Doomwhyte was one of the last books in the chronological order so I don't think you can safely say that he didn't have legacy of greatness, I would also like to point out that Poisonteeth (I refuse to spell out his actual name, to much work) Couldn't finish of Chicenhound. Baliss also seemed to have quite a reputation a with the birds in Mossflower, and probably the other creatures to.
The birds where terrified of Baliss, and probably wouldn't have gone after him if he had stolen anything from them whereas when the sparrows thought Poisonteeth had stolen something from them they went to try and take it back.
But I am just guessing at this because I don't have any proof but it just seemed like this is how things would play out. Also, Doomwhyte is fresher in my mind since I reread it recently and I have not reread Redwall in a while so there is some bias.

[LT Sandpaw]

Ascrod is the best Marlfox.

[Hickory]

I suppose Mokkan. Although I'd have to agree with Sand- I liked the lesser ones better.

[Groddil]

I suppose Mokkan. Although I'd have to agree with Sand- I liked the lesser ones better.

Agreed.

[Jetthebinturong]

Agreed.

[Gonff the Mousethief]

Mokkan, because he is the only one I can remember.

[Delthion]

Doomwhyte was one of the last books in the chronological order so I don't think you can safely say that he didn't have legacy of greatness, I would also like to point out that Poisonteeth (I refuse to spell out his actual name, to much work) Couldn't finish of Chicenhound. Baliss also seemed to have quite a reputation a with the birds in Mossflower, and probably the other creatures to.
The birds where terrified of Baliss, and probably wouldn't have gone after him if he had stolen anything from them whereas when the sparrows thought Poisonteeth had stolen something from them they went to try and take it back.
But I am just guessing at this because I don't have any proof but it just seemed like this is how things would play out. Also, Doomwhyte is fresher in my mind since I reread it recently and I have not reread Redwall in a while so there is some bias.

You see, Baliss was one of the offspring of Asmodeus, and as such he was weaker and not quite as large, the books stated that. Asmodeus was, at least the books made him sound, to be larger and more powerful than Baliss.