Gulo's Family and Wolverine orientation

[Ashleg]

Trump vs Clinton.

Heh.

[Grond]

Askor didn't want Gulo to be king but it never said that he wanted to be king.

One thing I found interesting is that wolverines are the only brave vermin species in the series. Gulo le his army from the front and also showed no signs of fear when his intimidation tactics didn't work against Tam. He even respected the squirrel's bravery, saying eating his heart would give him strength. Askor, on the other hand, when he was pinned under the tree advised the two travellers, their names escape me at the moment, I believe one of them was a hedgehog to eat him once he died before his flesh spoiled. He also did not want any help and showed no signs of fear of death. He obviously must have known he was dying as he was pinned under a massive tree which had fallen on top of him and broken his back. He even tried to lift it and subsequently died as a result.

Now this is just my opinion but I think a better ending would have been if with Gulo's horde depleted that Askor and Gulo would fight each other for the walking stone. With Askor emerging as the winner and returning to the land of ice and snow. As he obviously had no interest in conquering Redwall and it would have made more sense to have a wolverine vs. wolverine battle. Plus it would have been a different ending than usual.

[Ashleg]

Yeah, I agree.

[Feles]

I wouldn't go as far to say that wolverines are the only brave vermin,
Wearats (pretty sure I spelled that wrong), Snakes, Ulbaz's Lizards and most wildcat leaders were rather brave, though I think that wolverines are the bravest by default.

[Grond]

I wouldn't go as far to say that wolverines are the only brave vermin,
Wearats (pretty sure I spelled that wrong), Snakes, Ulbaz's Lizards and most wildcat leaders were rather brave, though I think that wolverines are the bravest by default.

I mostly agree however when I said brave vermin species I meant that all of the members of this species did not exhibit any fear what so ever of certain death (Askor and tree) or facing a skilled warrior in single combat- even being impressed at their foe's bravery (Gulo and Tam). The other species as a whole don't really meet this criteria. Meaning that wolverines were the only evil species who were just as brave as woodland/good species fighters.

Wearats- (I think they're the only other vermin species who might meet the above definition of brave species)
1. The one from Mossflower did meet the above criteria- he fought Matthias 1 on 1 without expecting or wanting any outside help and even managed to defeat him. He wasn't scared at any point in the battle.

2. Razzid Wearat- was scared of the Rogue Crew- he choose not to attack them the second time instead going for Redwall and we never really see him fighting in single 1 on 1 combat.

3. Kharanjool- its unclear with him- he stood by watching as the small posy led by Bragoon and Sarobando fought his 20 horde beasts stationed on the other side of the log and he also sent in troops after them from the opposing side. However only at the end of the fight did he and the rest of his horde head towards them- when the mortally wounded Brag and Saro tipped the log into the abyss with spears. Its unclear why he waited until the end of the fight to head towards the enemy or engage them personally.

Snakes seem to be semi-sentient not necessarily the same as "vermin". Therefore imo its kind of debateable whether you can use such descriptors for them-I mean you can't really describe "animals" or not fully sentient beings as brave or cowardly- this applies more to humans or "sentients".

Ulbaz's lizards- I don't remember them being particularly brave or doing anything that would meet the above definition.

Wildcats
Tsarmina- Was terrified of Argulor and would not face him in single combat and because of her fear wanted to kill him. She also I think jumped through a window to get into her castle from the courtyard when he came towards her.

Ungatt Trunn- Harder to determine. He did face Lord Brocktree in single combat but arranged to have Doomeye shoot and kill him in the event that the badger was starting to win the fight. He didn't expect to lose the fight as he was certain he had "insurance" if it was going against him. He also showed a fear of death and begged Brocktree to spare him upon losing the fight. So he kind of meets the above criteria and at the same time doesn't.

Verduga Greeneyes- We don't see him fight or get placed in a situation where he is knowingly facing death. He respected Martin's bravery but at the same time so did Trunn of Brocktree's father and the old hares during the siege and conquest of Salamandastron.

Riggu Felis- He was willing to attack Pandilon- but probably because he didn't expect him to be able to free himself and fly off and grab his face. But he didn't fear the goshawk afterwards either and managed to kill him. He also showed no fear of any enemy so I would say he was brave as per the above.

[Groddil]

Wearats- (I think they're the only other vermin species who might meet the above definition of brave species)
1. The one from Mattimeo did meet the above criteria- he fought Matthias 1 on 1 without expecting or wanting any outside help and even managed to defeat him. He wasn't scared at any point in the battle.

2. Razzid Wearat- was scared of the Rogue Crew- he choose not to attack them the second time instead going for Redwall and we never really see him fighting in single 1 on 1 combat.

3. Kharanjool- its unclear with him- he stood by watching as the small posy led by Bragoon and Sarobando fought his 20 horde beasts stationed on the other side of the log and he also sent in troops after them from the opposing side. However only at the end of the fight did he and the rest of his horde head towards them- when the mortally wounded Brag and Saro tipped the log into the abyss with spears. Its unclear why he waited until the end of the fight to head towards the enemy or engage them personally.

Razzid is the only "Wearat (Weasel x rat)" in the series, so that species probably isn't too courageous.

Kharanjool and the beast who fights Matthias in Mattimeo were "Wearets (Weasel x Ferret), a different species. Of the two examples we see of them, one could be called courageous, despite seeming like dumb muscle. He didn't speak, I don't think, just fought Matthias like a mindless berserker. Kharanjool is a tricky one, though, I agree.

Oh, and with wildcats from High Rhulain, Pitru is also pretty cowardly towards the end, despite acting tough in the beginning, to say nothing of Fellis's other son.

[Ashleg]

Pitru was a teenager, I think that explains it.

His mother was very brave in my opinion, she stood up to her WARLORD!husband a lot.

[Feles]

I wouldn't go as far to say that wolverines are the only brave vermin,
Wearats (pretty sure I spelled that wrong), Snakes, Ulbaz's Lizards and most wildcat leaders were rather brave, though I think that wolverines are the bravest by default.

I mostly agree however when I said brave vermin species I meant that all of the members of this species did not exhibit any fear what so ever of certain death (Askor and tree) or facing a skilled warrior in single combat- even being impressed at their foe's bravery (Gulo and Tam). The other species as a whole don't really meet this criteria. Meaning that wolverines were the only evil species who were just as brave as woodland/good species fighters.

Wearats- (I think they're the only other vermin species who might meet the above definition of brave species)
1. The one from Mattimeo did meet the above criteria- he fought Matthias 1 on 1 without expecting or wanting any outside help and even managed to defeat him. He wasn't scared at any point in the battle.
Fair
2. Razzid Wearat- was scared of the Rogue Crew- he choose not to attack them the second time instead going for Redwall and we never really see him fighting in single 1 on 1 combat.
Fair enough except for what Groddil pointed out.
3. Kharanjool- its unclear with him- he stood by watching as the small posy led by Bragoon and Sarobando fought his 20 horde beasts stationed on the other side of the log and he also sent in troops after them from the opposing side. However only at the end of the fight did he and the rest of his horde head towards them- when the mortally wounded Brag and Saro tipped the log into the abyss with spears. Its unclear why he waited until the end of the fight to head towards the enemy or engage them personally.
Fair enough
Snakes seem to be semi-sentient not necessarily the same as "vermin". Therefore imo its kind of debateable whether you can use such descriptors for them-I mean you can't really describe "animals" or not fully sentient beings as brave or cowardly- this applies more to humans or "sentients".
I meant Adders in particular, most snakes aren't all that brave. But only a small few are semi-sentient. The whole "not necessarily vermin" point is fair however
Ulbaz's lizards- I don't remember them being particularly brave or doing anything that would meet the above definition.
Lask's lizards, once they realized they would not win the battle for redwall, made a tactical retreat, not entirely unlike a long patrol hare would.
Wildcats
Tsarmina- Was terrified of Argulor and would not face him in single combat and because of her fear wanted to kill him. She also I think jumped through a window to get into her castle from the courtyard when he came towards her.
when i said, most wildcat warlords, this was the exception.
Ungatt Trunn- Harder to determine. He did face Lord Brocktree in single combat but arranged to have Doomeye shoot and kill him in the event that the badger was starting to win the fight. He didn't expect to lose the fight as he was certain he had "insurance" if it was going against him. He also showed a fear of death and begged Brocktree to spare him upon losing the fight. So he kind of meets the above criteria and at the same time doesn't.
To be fair, Gulo was never put at Tam's complete mercy.
Verduga Greeneyes- We don't see him fight or get placed in a situation where he is knowingly facing death. He respected Martin's bravery but at the same time so did Trunn of Brocktree's father and the old hares during the siege and conquest of Salamandastron.
Fair
Riggu Felis- He was willing to attack Pandilon- but probably because he didn't expect him to be able to free himself and fly off and grab his face. But he didn't fear the goshawk afterwards either and managed to kill him. He also showed no fear of any enemy so I would say he was brave as per the above.
Fair

I'd also like to point out that we only ever saw two wolverines, as opposed to four Wildcats and three half-rat species.

[The Skarzs]

Fearing death isn't a bad thing, and some fear is good. Having those two doesn't make you not brave, and not fearing either of those isn't very smart.

[alexandre]

Kharanjool

I just love that name

[The Skarzs]

Where is that from?

[Ashleg]

Kahranjool is the fox from Lord Brocktree who got killed by Bucko Bigbones.

[Jetthebinturong]

No, he's the wearet from Loamhedge and it's spelt Kharanjul. The fox is Karangool.

[Ashleg]

Okay, misspelling on my part.
But how do you know it's the wearet Al meant and not the fox?

[The Skarzs]

It's more likely he was talking about the wearat, since that's what was being discussed by Groddil, Grond, and Inq.