[WARNING: This topic may contain spoilers. In fact, it's almost certain to. ;)]
Taggerung and Salamandastron are tied first for me. :'( :'(
Salamandastron for having a few moments that got me to tears or close to it (more in a single book than the others). That Dryditch fever also kept things depressing since there was potential for there to be more losses.
In general I don't think of Redwall books as being sad, so I go for what had the saddest moments or most number of sad moments. The closest I can think of to a consistently sad book is "The Rogue Crew", constant war, spots of hope were few. I didn't nominate that because it didn't make me cry. After all the harm and deaths, it was numbing me to the tragedy actually.
I know lots of people will say Martin the Warrior because of that one terrible moment at the end, and I agree, that moment brought me to tears, but for the most consistently sad novel I'll have to say Mattimeo and Salamandastron.
Mattimeo had plenty of sad moments at the start, with Mrs. Bankvole and Friar Hugo passing away. It is also a constantly sad novel, with the rescuers always getting so close to the stolen children, but then losing it. Also, just the storyline is a bit depressing, with children being stolen as revenge. And then there is the part where Queen Warbeak and Log-a-Log dies...
Salamandastron pretty much for the reasons already mentioned. The Dryditch fever keeps the mood a bit down and with Urthstripe falling to his death to kill Ferahgo and never getting to meet Urthwyte. Yeah, that is a real tear-jerker moment.
Loamhege: i almost cried when Bragg and Saro died :'(
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 06, 2011, 07:27:29 AM
Salamandastron pretty much for the reasons already mentioned. The Dryditch fever keeps the mood a bit down and with Urthstripe falling to his death to kill Ferahgo and never getting to meet Urthwyte. Yeah, that is a real tear-jerker moment.
True, true. I thought Mara's speech was cheesy, though...
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 06, 2011, 07:27:29 AM
Mattimeo had plenty of sad moments at the start, with Cynthia Bankvole and Friar Hugo passing away. It is also a constantly sad novel, with the rescuers always getting so close to the stolen children, but then losing it. Also, just the storyline is a bit depressing, with children being stolen as revenge. And then there is the part where Queen Warbeak and Log-a-Log dies...
Mrs Bankvole died, not Cynthia. Cynthia was one of the young ones who were taken. I just finished
Mattimeo again today. ;)
As for the saddest book... that's a hard one. I agree with Daniel about
Mattimeo, the storyline itself is one of the saddest. Also, the characters who die had already been with us through another book, so their loss hit harder, I think.
Pearls of Lutra also sprang to my mind when I first read this topic. I remember being absolutely devastated when Piknim died. There was a moment like that in every book, I guess, but Piknim's death stands out for some reason.
Quote from: Lily on December 06, 2011, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 06, 2011, 07:27:29 AM
Mattimeo had plenty of sad moments at the start, with Cynthia Bankvole and Friar Hugo passing away. It is also a constantly sad novel, with the rescuers always getting so close to the stolen children, but then losing it. Also, just the storyline is a bit depressing, with children being stolen as revenge. And then there is the part where Queen Warbeak and Log-a-Log dies...
Mrs Bankvole died, not Cynthia. Cynthia was one of the young ones who were taken. I just finished Mattimeo again today. ;)
My mistake! Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote from: Lily on December 06, 2011, 02:03:22 PM
Pearls of Lutra also sprang to my mind when I first read this topic. I remember being absolutely devastated when Piknim died. There was a moment like that in every book, I guess, but Piknim's death stands out for some reason.
I agree with you, that one was pretty sad. I felt sad when Piknim died. I even felt a bit sad when Romsca died, as well!
Legend of Luke was always the saddest for me
I think that Martin the Warrior was one of the saddest for the obvious reason. I love the way the romance between Martin and Rose was carried out, and it made it all the sadder when she died. I think her death was special because it completely changed the course of a main character's life. (And though one could argue that's what happened in Taggerung, we don't know Deyna's father enough to really love him.)
Bragoon and Saro's deaths were very sad also. I think that's the first time Mr. Jacques killed off two of his really important characters in one blow.
Hmm, perhaps that's why I don't really like Mattimeo. ;)
I'm re-reading Salamandastron right now, and I find it interesting how Mr. Jacques almost seems to indicate that Urthstrip is at fault for his relationship with Mara breaking down. It is pretty sad that he never gets to even see Mara. I personally, would rather that he somehow remains conscious for a few seconds after his fall and sees Mara bending over him (perhaps whispering something like, "I'm sorry, Browneye". Why yes, I do like overly dramatic deaths. How did you guess? ;D )
Have any of you been able to predict when somebeast's going to die? I remember when my dad was reading me Triss (a LONG time ago!) we got to the part where they're all sitting around eating lunch before going into Brockhall, and it says something like, "Triss gazed at Shog, and a wave of affection swept over her for the faithful otter." My dad looked up and said "Well, I guess that's it for Shog. He's gotta die now." And somehow I just knew that Swiffo had to die. :(
Quote from: Dotti on December 07, 2011, 02:03:54 AM
I'm re-reading Salamandastron right now, and I find it interesting how Mr. Jacques almost seems to indicate that Urthstrip is at fault for his relationship with Mara breaking down. It is pretty sad that he never gets to even see Mara. I personally, would rather that he somehow remains conscious for a few seconds after his fall and sees Mara bending over him (perhaps whispering something like, "I'm sorry, Browneye". Why yes, I do like overly dramatic deaths. How did you guess? ;D )
Bwaaaaahaaaahaaaaa! :'( :'( :'( :'( That is soooo saaaad. If it had been that way, I would really have cried. :'(
Is no one going to mention Cregga's death? She was in THREE BOOKS, for goodness sake! :o
Legend of Luke is terribly sad. One tragedy after another. First when the women and young ones are murdered, then when Beau falls overboard, then when the Sayna is wrecked and the crew killed, then when Luke sacrifices his life. :( And it doesn't help knowing that while all that was happening, little Martin was being made a slave :(
Loamhedge and Taggerrung were pretty sad, with Bragoon, Saro and Cregga.
Friar Hugo in Mattimeo :(
And even though Shogg's death was predictable, I found it awfully sad.
loamhedge was the saddest when bragoon and saro died
i can withstand phyisical hurts but no mental ones
D:
I would have to say Salamandastron because of the ending and Urthstripe :(
Im going to have to go with salamandastron with this one.
In order:
1. Martin the Warrior (That's just downright tragic!)
2. Pearls of Lutra (An ENTIRE HOLT was slaughtered!)
3. Mattimeo (reasons stated in other posts)
MTW was not sad except for at the end, which failed to move me to tears (but then, almost nothing in writing can do that) ;). I would say that The Legend of Luke is really sad. Luke's death was predictable, but I feel cheated whenever I read that, and sad for Martin, because he never saw his father again. :(
The Legend of Luke was so sad I remember going to my room and crying for Martin.
Martin the Warrior moved me to tears......and I almost NEVER cry! That was years ago and I haven't cried over a book since.....although I almost wanted to last time I reread MTW.
Triss, This book really made me cry when Drufo dies and then at the end of the book when Shog dies.
the other one I really cried on was The Long Patrol, when Russa Nodrey dies.
For me it was the death of Felldoh. I may have acted the same way if I had been born a slave. Sad waste of many lives.
Martin the warrion when Rose of Noonvale dies :'( :'(
QuotePearls of Lutra also sprang to my mind when I first read this topic. I remember being absolutely devastated when Piknim died. There was a moment like that in every book, I guess, but Piknim's death stands out for some reason.
:( I was depressed the rest of the day when that happened I wanted to find something to pay respects to her :(
Felldoh and Rose in Martin the Warrior also got me =[
Even in The Sable Quean I felt sad when Gliv wasn't able to avenge her mate. It's not often vermin show much remorse or emotion in these books so I was really hoping she'd get her chance.
When Skor's son in the rogue crew died that probably woulda been sadder for me if I wasn't so angry at how he died. >.> It didn't make any sense for that fox from the hinterlands Ketral Vayne to have gone there by himself even though he had an army of his own and then take a shot at just killing one person and trying to run. @_@
I really wanna read these all over again now I realize I forgot some moments in it's history. O_O Gotta finish the song of ice and fire series first though ;o
Loamhedge and Martin the warrior!
Now I've changed my mind after reading some of the other books...I would have to say Triss is one of the saddest because of how the slaves are treated so unfairly and because of poor Drufo and Shogg :(. Pearls of Lutra because of the Lutra Holt being killed for six pearls and of course Piknim :(. Oh, and The Taggerung because of Deyna growing up not knowing his real family and because of Rillflag :(.
Quote from: Rollo the Baby Bankvole on December 20, 2011, 02:31:50 AM
Now I've changed my mind after reading some of the other books...I would have to say Triss is one of the saddest because of how the slaves are treated so unfairly and because of poor Drufo and Shogg :(. Pearls of Lutra because of the Lutra Holt being killed for six pearls and of course Piknim :(. Oh, and The Taggerung because of Deyna growing up not knowing his real family and because of Rillflag :(.
DON'T YOU DARE FORGET CREGGA! :'(
Oh yeah, and Cregga, it was sad when she died, at least she was happy and it was a peaceful death, surrounded by her friend Mhera :(
Yeah, and that was more than Rillflag got.
I can't believe nobody's mentioned Skarlath! His death was always the saddest death for me.
I think loamhedge and martin the warrior are the saddest.
For sure Loamhedge. Bragg and Saro's death was the most heroic and sad moment for me in all the Redwall books.
Concurring with several previous posts, I would cast my vote for Loamhedge.
loamhedge and Martin the Warrior.
Martin the warrior, and The Legend of Luke.
Martin the Warrior and Legend of Luke, for sure. Martin is such a kind and brave mouse throughout the series (in life and death) that takes care to protect the others and the Abbey yet was unable to protect himself from tragedy :(
Definitely Martin the Warrior.
Martin the warrior :'( :'( :'(
Martin the Warrior was sad at the end, but if you want a book that's mostly sad, I'd say Salamandastron.
Th saddest moment for me was in High Rhulain, but the saddest book ever was Martin the Warrior.
What part of High Rhulain?
Probably when the one creature died, (I forgot her name!)
Well, there was Fatch's death in Bellmaker.
Shogg's death in Triss
Russa's death, and Rockjaw Grang's.
Those were pretty sad
But the saddest is Martin the Warrior, with Rose's death. :'(
Quote from: Shogg on April 18, 2012, 11:13:41 PM
Well, there was Fatch's death in Bellmaker.
Shogg's death in Triss
Russa's death, and Rockjaw Grang's.
Those were pretty sad
But the saddest is Martin the Warrior, with Rose's death. :'(
Jukka's and the one hares death in Lord Brocktree
Log-a-log from Marlfox
Methusaluh from Redwall...
But still he saddest is Rose's from Martin the Warrior :'( R.I.P.
Oh yeah, and I forgot the one in loamhedge, with two travelers.
Woke up day after reading it with tears in my eyes
Then realized I'd been staring into the sun when I awoke.
The staring part is a joke
A good theme song for it is The Last Journey Home by DragonForce.
(For battle that is.)
Your talking about Bragoon & Saro.
bragroons and sugo
when rose dies
when the hares died in marial
skarlarth
rockjaw death and russa nordreays
shoggs death
It's Bragoon and Saro
Martin the Warrior for me.
I know. Martin and Rose could have had a romantic ending if she hadn't died :'(
Pearls of Lutra nearly made me cry. I didn't like how they killed off some of the characters. It was just a sad story.
Mattimeo was also sad... WarBeak was an awesome sparrow, and she died
Probably Triss. She loses so many of the creatures she cares about: her dad, Drufo, and Shogg.
But she made up for all that by being a Mary Sue!
What's a Mary Sue? I've heard the term before but don't know the meaning.
Martin the Warrior hands down.
Outcast was pretty sad...I really loved Skarlath. And even Veil's death was pretty sad; he wasn't all bad in the end.
Bragoon and Saro's death in Loamhedge seems to be a popular answer too...and I would have to agree. Gotta love those two.
A mary sue is a character (most of the time a girl) who feels like she needs to rely on other people or constantly cling to other people to make her feel safe. At least, that's what I think the definition is. In my opinion, the only real Mary Sue I've met in the Redwall series is Celandine.
Thank you for the descriptive definition... WHERE DID THE IDEA THAT TRISS IS A MARY SUE COME FROM!!! ??? :o
I don't know... A lot of people say that both her and Rose are Mary sues, but I disagree. Rose wasn't constantly all "I knew my hero would come back" like Celandine was.
Actually, a better definition of a Mary Sue is "little miss perfect." She's pretty, a fearless warrior, super lucky, gets the handsome guy, is envied by everyone etc. Tiria or melanda MacBurl are good examples, in my opinion.
Thank you. That's what I thought when I heard the term first... To be honest I greatly dislike Tiria from The High Rhulain that's her book right? Because she is the most god-moded character in the books. ;D (RP terms, sorry)
what's wrong with being pretty and getting the handsome guy? I don't see anything wrong with that.
Besides that: Tiria was the best slinger in the history of Redwall, she was friends with everyone (except the baddies of course ;)) She got to slay the head honcho of the evil dudes, she got all the special equipment (The shark hide sling, feather weight armor, Corins lance ect.) everything always worked out for her, and she was always such a perfect missy.
Its that she was pretty, randomly amazing with the sling, super smart, friends with everyone, pretty fearless, got the guy... and to top it off, she couldn't be skipper of otters, but that's ok because she just happened to be the queen of Green Isle, and not because she really earned the title.
I don't hate her character, but that's why she's technically a Mary Sue.
So you're basically saying that a Mary Sue is a character who gets whatever they want without having to work for it.
That and/or they have no major flaws.
Martin the Warrior
If you Wikipedia Mary Sue it should answer any other questions you have.
Back in topic, my vote goes to Mattimeo.
some of you guys have NO taste
Huh?
What are you talking about Dannflor?
We'd have to be missing our tongues to be missing our taste... Please explain.
Quote from: Flandor on June 27, 2012, 07:12:01 PM
Its that she was pretty, randomly amazing with the sling, super smart, friends with everyone, pretty fearless, got the guy... and to top it off, she couldn't be skipper of otters, but that's ok because she just happened to be the queen of Green Isle, and not because she really earned the title.
I don't hate her character, but that's why she's technically a Mary Sue.
Flandor, she didn't 'get the guy'. If she did, my username would be Lady Amber.
Quote from: Flandor on June 27, 2012, 07:12:01 PM
Its that she was pretty, randomly amazing with the sling, super smart, friends with everyone, pretty fearless, got the guy... and to top it off, she couldn't be skipper of otters, but that's ok because she just happened to be the queen of Green Isle, and not because she really earned the title.
I don't hate her character, but that's why she's technically a Mary Sue.
Actually, she was great with a sling because she'd been using it since she was little. And I agree with Tiria(the forum user)'s post above: how did she 'get the guy'?
My bad about the getting the guy comment. I still stand that she was pretty, loved by everyone, polite and smart, incredible with a sling, and became a queen just because. How many characters do we know who trained with a sling since they were young? A whole lot. None of them could have done what she did, or frankly even come close.
She still fits the Sue description to me. She's not the only Redwall character who does, but she is the one who stood out most to me (after Melanda MacBurl). I still like her, I was just explaining what was Sue-ish about her.
And we're completely off-topic.
Mhera is awesome
Deynas' awesomer! ;D (This is off-topic)
I don't think Deyna's awesome. Also, we're off topic.
Saddest Redwall book, everyone?
Well, like I said before, Outcast has gotta be one of the saddest...Skalrlath and Veil's death...very sad! :(
The only Redwall book that moves me to tears every time I read it is Loamhedge, I didn't even cry at Rose's death. Maybe a little bit. I won't say who died in Loamhedge for fear of spoiling it. I think everyone knows that Rose dies.
The only time I had tears in my eyes was the part in Bellmaker where Blaggut returns Mother Mellus's badger cup. That part was so sad.
Basically all of them are sad (all I can think of at least one main character dies) the saddest for me is Luke the warrior and Martin the warrior
Luke The Warrior and Martin the W. Obviously.
That part in The Legend of Luke where the Goreleech crashes is sad too. You can only imagine how Martin felt. :(
Mr. J is good at making me love his characters than killing them and making me sad :( he does it in nearly every book
Quote from: Tiria Wildlough on July 09, 2012, 01:37:06 AM
That part in The Legend of Luke where the Goreleech crashes is sad too. You can only imagine how Martin felt. :(
The Legend of Luke is sad as well, second only to Loamhedge.
I wrote a fanfiction where Luke survives the Goreleech. It's called The Warrior Lives On.
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 06, 2011, 07:27:29 AM.
Mattimeo... It is also a constantly sad novel, with the rescuers always getting so close to the stolen children, but then losing it.
Eh, I didn't find that sad. I mean, you've still got so much of a book left, you expect them to be rescued right then? Plus, it's so much more epic ending the story at the destination of the underground.
I know, I'm just looking at it like it's a story. I'm sorry.
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 06, 2011, 07:27:29 AM. Also, just the storyline is a bit depressing, with children being stolen as revenge. And then there is the part where Queen Warbeak and Log-a-Log dies...
Those were seperate instances, though. Warbeak's effected me far more, since she was always a favorite of mine...
The saddest one for m was Pearls of Lutra, I don't even know why, but it depressed me for several days afterwards.
Martin the Warrior was very sad because both Rose of Noonvale and Feldoah die......... :'(
I pretty much never even got wet eyes in any book. So what? Call me heartless.
Pearls of Lutra hands down. The storyline itself is depressing, with so many dying justfor six pink pearls for a pine marten. :'( This is an episode that has repeated itself many times in history, and that is why I'll always think The Pearls Of Lutra was one of the best books in the series.
I'm glad to see someone agrees with me! ;)
@Delthion. Well, just got mah hands on Pearls of Lutra and reading it right now. I actually started crying with joy in the library when I found they had Redwall books. :P I find that the seagulls stealing the marchpane balls from the cake mistaking them to be the Tears of All Oceans hilarious. :D
EDIT: Just finished, just a little bit disappointed that there was no HUGE battle at the end. :-\ Well, its still fantastic.
I'm honestly going to say Martin The Warrior: there are other Redwall books that are sad, but having your loved one die in a battle that you could have prevented her from "attending"... now that's just dipressinh :'(
I think that book was meant to be dramatic and be a tragedy, and Brian did a good job portraying it.
Quote from: The Skarzs on December 17, 2014, 04:26:54 AM
I think that book was meant to be dramatic and be a tragedy, and Brian did a good job portraying it.
Agreed. I don't think Shakespear could have done any better at a tragedy drama...
Um. . . yyyyes he could. :P There are four great tragedians: Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Shakespeare. They formed tragedy.
Quote from: The Skarzs on December 17, 2014, 04:49:34 AM
Um. . . yyyyes he could. :P There are four great tragedians: Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Shakespeare. They formed tragedy.
I've read some Shakespeare... they were great in the sense of stories, but I really didn't find them sad. But Martin The Warrior really almost brought me to tears... but that's just my opinion. ;)
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2014, 04:51:11 AM
Quote from: The Skarzs on December 17, 2014, 04:49:34 AM
Um. . . yyyyes he could. :P There are four great tragedians: Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Shakespeare. They formed tragedy.
I've read some Shakespeare... they were great in the sense of stories, but I really didn't find them sad. But Martin The Warrior really almost brought me to tears... but that's just my opinion. ;)
Martin the Warrior was a book with a sad ending. It wasn't a tragedy though. Practicaly everyone has to die in a real tragedy.
I always cry when Abbot Mortimer dies in Redwall. :(
Quote from: BrookSkimmer on December 17, 2014, 11:08:37 PM
I always cry when Abbot Mortimer dies in Redwall. :(
Wait, Brook? Your here??? Not trying to be creepy or anything, but I haven't seen you in a LONG time...
She's been supervising the tournament, so yeah. :P
I think Martin the Warrior was the saddest Redwall book. Sooooo sad! :'(
Loamhedge. :'( Though Rose's death was pretty sad in the tv series.
Either Mattimeo or Outcast of Redwall.
Mattimeo's general atmosphere was misery and despair. Things would start to come right, then something would happen and destroy their hope again. (And Warbeak dying made me cry)
Outcast of Redwall had some very happy parts that seemed to make Sunflash's past all the more terrible. His friendship with Skarlath was beautiful and the end to that friendship was heartbreaking.
Mattimeo was pretty much depressing the whole way through.
Martin the Warrior was also SO sad! Slavery, death just an all around depressing. God that book was such a downer but still so good.
The Bellmaker and Taggerung weren't very sad but Finbarr and Cregga's deaths were the only deaths to make me cry in redwall.
Agreed. A lot of the deaths were super sad. Though, I think Loamhedge is one I can remember feeling super sad afterwards.