Poll
Question:
Grey or black?
Option 1: Grey
votes: 3
Option 2: Black
votes: 19
I personally think he's grey. He only enslaved the beasts because he felt they owed him, he kept the mousebabe and Calla and Urfa captive so the others would stay in line. He was only thinking of himself.
This is one I felt is very much cut-and-dry....Truggut isn't a nice character, and doesn't seem to have any gray qualities. He enslaved the young ones, clearly knowing what he was doing, pretty much forcing them to work for him and build him a house. They couldn't leave the island. I'd call this slavery--holding one against ones will in ##:1162--and as such, he is a black character. Just because some may say "he's owed something" doesn't make it right. ;) He wasn't written with gray intentions like other characters clearly have been. He's no Veil, whom you could say had more good in him than this hedgehog.
Quote from: Lutra on July 28, 2012, 05:14:55 PM
This is one I felt is very much cut-and-dry....Truggut isn't a nice character, and doesn't seem to have any gray qualities. He enslaved the young ones, clearly knowing what he was doing, pretty much forcing them to work for him and build him a house. They couldn't leave the island. I'd call this slavery--holding one against ones will in ##:1162--and as such, he is a black character. Just because some may say "he's owed something" doesn't make it right. ;) He wasn't written with gray intentions like other characters clearly have been. He's no Veil, whom you could say had more good in him than this hedgehog.
So, a gray character can have both good and evil qualities right?
by definition, a gray character has both good and evil qualities. Redwall fans just have a custom definition.
Quote from: psybox on July 28, 2012, 05:44:45 PM
by definition, a gray character has both good and evil qualities. Redwall fans just have a custom definition.
well, then, what's the custom definition?
good vermin or evil woodlanders.
Well, the custom definition would be incorrect. A grey character is one who is a bit bad and a bit good.
So, isn't there a bit of gray in everyone, then? Because everyone can act good or bad.
Gray is a bit of good and bad, as Tiria said. Blaggut was good. Romsca was gray, but did seriously redeem herself in her final days. Veil was gray. A lot of the voles were gray.
In real life, people are all mostly gray. Redwall is a bit more cut and dry, and thus a bit less realistic in that regard.
Triggut was definitely black. He was clearly insane, but insanity doesn't excuse him from being completely evil in my book. He enslaved the young beasts, and threatened to have them murdered more than once. He willingly would've caused them harm. That makes him bad, whatever his sanity was.
Quote from: Flandor on July 28, 2012, 10:29:41 PM
Gray is a bit of good and bad, as Tiria said. Blaggut was good. Romsca was gray, but did seriously redeem herself in her final days. Veil was gray. A lot of the voles were gray.
In real life, people are all mostly gray. Redwall is a bit more cut and dry, and thus a bit less realistic in that regard.
Triggut was definitely black. He was clearly insane, but insanity doesn't excuse him from being completely evil in my book. He enslaved the young beasts, and threatened to have them murdered more than once. He willingly would've caused them harm. That makes him bad, whatever his sanity was.
I have a very low opinion of Triggut. He has evil qualities in my pov.
Yeah, so do I.
I voted Black. I didn't like him and he seemed evil to me.
Aye.
Black.
Refresh my memory: Who was Triggut Frap?
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 04, 2013, 06:09:27 PM
Refresh my memory: Who was Triggut Frap?
He was that nasty Hedgehog who captured the dibbuns in
The Sable Quean.
Yes, I really didn't like him I voted black.
Well he was pretty bad. And normaly if I don't like some one/beast it means they are really bad.
Yep.He was as bad as vermin.
Quote from: The Shade on July 13, 2013, 12:39:41 PM
Yep.He was as bad as vermin.
Yeah h have you noticed that some hedgehogs in Redwall have vermin characteristics
I wouldn't say he was black nor grey. He was on nobody's side, only on his own. Do we really know his story?
Maybe he was treated badly by woodlanders, there are lots of things that could have pushed him to being evil. Since he was deformed, maybe creatures made fun of him, and he sought revenge on whoever came to him first.
Quote from: Redwaller on July 14, 2013, 04:32:39 PM
I wouldn't say he was black nor grey. He was on nobody's side, only on his own. Do we really know his story?
Maybe he was treated badly by woodlanders, there are lots of things that could have pushed him to being evil. Since he was deformed, maybe creatures made fun of him, and he sought revenge on whoever came to him first.
that is a very good point
The hedgehog from Sable Queen who's spikes were falling out.
Definitely would say he's an evil character, enslavement of others is never anything BUT evil.
Quote from: Redwaller on July 14, 2013, 04:32:39 PM
I wouldn't say he was black nor grey. He was on nobody's side, only on his own. Do we really know his story?
Maybe he was treated badly by woodlanders, there are lots of things that could have pushed him to being evil. Since he was deformed, maybe creatures made fun of him, and he sought revenge on whoever came to him first.
Does his story really matter that much? Even if he was made fun of, that's no excuse to be evil, slavery is slavery no matter what the story.
But you must understand why he would do such a thing
Quote from: danflorreguba on July 22, 2013, 02:55:55 PM
The hedgehog from Sable Queen who's spikes were falling out.
Nay, yer zinkin' o' ze vone from
Ze Rogue Crev ah zink.
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 22, 2013, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: danflorreguba on July 22, 2013, 02:55:55 PM
The hedgehog from Sable Queen who's spikes were falling out.
Nay, yer zinkin' o' ze vone from Ze Rogue Crev ah zink.
No, I specifically remember that the hedgehog with the spikes falling out was from the Sable Queen.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 04, 2013, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 04, 2013, 06:09:27 PM
Refresh my memory: Who was Triggut Frap?
He was that nasty Hedgehog who captured the dibbuns in The Sable Quean.
Ah, yes I remember.
He was black!
Quote from: rachel25 on July 22, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
But you must understand why he would do such a thing
There
is no reason for slavery and murder that make it any more ok. I don't remember Triggut, but he sounds bad. If he held dibbuns as hostages to make others do his will, black. Period. It doesn't matter if he was teased his entire life. If he's commiting a crime like that, he is a black character. I musn't understand why he would do such a thing, no matter what anybeast had done to him he shouldn't have, unless being agressive directly to the ones who were cruel to him. If, say, he did have a bad life, it'd be better to direct his anger and agression more at those being cruel to him, rather than random protagonists.
There is no excuse for enslaving innocent creature and using dibbuns as hostages, the creature being enslaved (And most certainly the dibbuns) never did anything to harm him.
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 23, 2013, 02:35:25 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on July 22, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
But you must understand why he would do such a thing
There is no reason for slavery and murder that make it any more ok. I don't remember Triggut, but he sounds bad. If he held dibbuns as hostages to make others do his will, black. Period. It doesn't matter if he was teased his entire life. If he's commiting a crime like that, he is a black character. I musn't understand why he would do such a thing, no matter what anybeast had done to him he shouldn't have, unless being agressive directly to the ones who were cruel to him. If, say, he did have a bad life, it'd be better to direct his anger and agression more at those being cruel to him, rather than random protagonists. There is no excuse for enslaving innocent creature and using dibbuns as hostages, the creature being enslaved (And most certainly the dibbuns) never did anything to harm him.
Amen!
Quote from: danflorreguba on July 22, 2013, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 22, 2013, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: danflorreguba on July 22, 2013, 02:55:55 PM
The hedgehog from Sable Queen who's spikes were falling out.
Nay, yer zinkin' o' ze vone from Ze Rogue Crev ah zink.
No, I specifically remember that the hedgehog with the spikes falling out was from the Sable Queen.
Zorry, ah juzt checked. Triggut Frap from
Ze Zable Quean 'ad lozt aboot 'alf o' 'iz zpikez. Drogbuk Wiltud from
Ze Rogue Crev vaz ze vone viz av o' 'iz zpikez favin' oot, an' after zat baz, 'e lozt av o' zem.
Triggut Frap is Black. Being insane isn't really an excuse. He captured dibbuns, told them to build him a house, threatened a young one who was so young he could barely walk to being eaten by pikes and... yeah that's about it.
I actually really liked him as a villain though. Most of the time, evil woodlanders to me are always not the best villains. But Triggut Frap was actually a woodlander villain who was really good! I loved how, even though he was insane, he was actually really smart! I loved when all the dibbuns tried to trick him, he always figured out that they were trying to trick him!
But yeah, Triggut was black.